Ambush scenario

[mollari_uk]

Thought I'd get a better response here for this than in rulesmasters.

Last night I played the Ambush scenario and I was wondering about the rule for the first turn for the defenders. It states (copied from a previous rulesmaster post):

SCENARIO RULES: The Attacker automatically wins Initiative in the first turn. The Defending player may only act normally with his ships if they first pass a Crew Quality check (target number 10). If a ship fails this check, it must move 6" (or up to it's maximum speed if less than 6) in a straight line. The defending player's fighters may all act normally.

This doesn't mention firing. Can the defenders fire? We played it that they couldn't but I'm not so sure, I can read it both ways.

 

[H]

they may act mormally if they pass the CQ check, meaning they can fire, if they fail, they move... and thats it. They have been caught completely unawares and are too slow to react to the attack, meaning they keep their existing course and speed, and don't fire or anything.
At least thats how we always played it.

 

[AdrianH]

That would be my interpretation too. In 1st Edition the defending player's ships could do nothing in the first turn (except take damage). It didn't even have the exception for fighters. Presumably someone felt this was too harsh and in 2nd Edition allowed the defender some chance to react. So I'd agree that a ship which failed its CQ check can do nothing except move as stated.

By that logic, it doesn't get any special actions either. It definitely can't take any special actions which affect movement since its movement is dictated by the rules.

 

[Greg Smith]

If the defending ships fail the CQ checks, they can do nothing. No special actions, no firing, just move the prescribed distance.

Note: also confusiong in the writing of this, is that this only applys in the first turn. All ships move normally after that.

 

[Burger]

How about ising interceptors, dodge etc? Is it like a drifting Victory?

 

[Democratus]

I don't think they loose any Special Traits in the first turn. The rules for Victory are pretty explicit, using words like "Zilch" and "Nada". They don't go to that extreme for the Ambush scenario.

I've only played this mission a couple of times. How are people finding the balance of this one?

 

[Burger]

If there is someone present to press the big red "dodge" button, surely he can also press the big green "fire" button?

 

[H]

I would consider active defences such as doging and interceptors as a no no, but passive ones such as geg and shields would work. just personal thoughts on it, but as said, if you are caught unawares, you wouldn't be able to dodge, interceptors is more tricky, are they always on, and computer controlled reactions or what? for ease i'd just say no. Sadly, stupid stealth would work

 

[mollari_uk]

...
I've only played this mission a couple of times. How are people finding the balance of this one?

Although it's only one game, I found it great and one of the best games I've played for a while. But saying that I was using a fleet I don't normally use and the other player doesn't play much. If you specifically picked ships that were good in this scenario it might be a different story.

It first appears that the attackers can win very quickly if they take out a ship in the first turn (as the attackers can then flee giving no points away), and that the defenders would win easily if they don't. It didn't turn out that way for us and it was very close except for the last turn.

 

[mollari_uk]

I would consider active defences such as doging and interceptors as a no no, but passive ones such as geg and shields would work. just personal thoughts on it, but as said, if you are caught unawares, you wouldn't be able to dodge, interceptors is more tricky, are they always on, and computer controlled reactions or what? for ease i'd just say no. Sadly, stupid stealth would work

I wish I'd never asked! Now there's even more abiguity than before.

 

[Madadh]

Seems fairly straightforward to me (which is surprising for alot of the ActA rules). The rules state nothing about losing traits or defenses during the first turn, only their actions. As much as we'd love to 'interpret' the rules to match logic, let's be honest... its a minis game representing space in 2D.

Logic need not apply.

Edit: I also might add that if you try to mess with the rules any more you put the scenario vastly out of balance. No active defenses means Earth Alliance with their low hull points gets screwed, even moreso for the ISA. Minbari get to be even better, etc.

 

[AdrianH]

Here's my attempt at a "fluff" explanation for why traits work but active fire and movement doesn't:

Interceptors and anti-fighter are probably automatic. Dodge is probably nearly instinctive in the pilot of a ship which is actually capable of it, or the captain is at least well enough trained to yell "Incoming fire, hard to port!" while he figures out what to do next. Shields, stealth and adaptive armour are presumably some combination of weird hull material and active systems. The weird hull material is always there; the active systems presumably don't draw much power, so they can be left on all the time, and incidentally don't mess up "Silent Running!" either.

Beyond that, the ship is cruising along at a basic speed, pointing at its intended destination. Weapons are powered down, gun ports are closed, and scanners obviously aren't working to full efficiency if an enemy fleet can mount an ambush. It takes a little time to get everything to battle readiness and for the commander to take stock of where the enemy are and where to move and fire in response. Unless the ship saw what was about to happen and was ready (i.e. passed its CQ check), it continues on course and can't fire.

A Victory which has just fired its lightning cannon is another matter. That weapon drains all the ship's power (if I remember "Crusade" correctly, even the lights dim or go out). Adaptive armour might work if it's all in the weird hull material; absolutely nothing else works at all.

 

[Banichi]

If there is someone present to press the big red "dodge" button, surely he can also press the big green "fire" button?

I really hope you don't crew your fleet with colour blind people.

 

[AdrianH]

Or with Minbari who, when you swear because something unexpected has happened, misinterpret your curse as the Minbari for "Fire all weapons". It's not too bad if you're in a White Star and all the weapons are facing forward, but it could be embarrassing if you're in a Sharlin in the middle of your fleet. :lol: