Alien P ratings.

[Silk]

Withn the structure of the game, If the max P rating of a human telepath is P12, does that apply for the other races also? (Narns excluded)

Are/is there any rules to address this in future suppliments? I would guess not all races would have exactly the same constraints, i.e perhaps Drazi could only master P8 and maybe Minbari P13 (Purely examples).

Thanks in advance...

 

[MongooseMatt]

We'll do something advanced for telepaths at some point in the future but, for now, assume P12 is the limit all round.

 

[scottmage]

"The vast majority of telepaths are rated from P1-5 and these form the basis of those used in commercial enterprises and political negotiations. The scale goes up to P15, though no human has ever been rated above P12, the level the dreaded Psi Cops are required to be." Pg. 38 from the Main book.

There are probbly different strengths as well for the different Psi abilities. The Drak saved Londo with TK and threw it back at his assassin with great power and skill.

Certainly the Vorlons are at least P20s. :twisted:

 

[ShadowScout]

Certainly the Vorlons are at least P20s.

Well...


"For now, Games masters may assume that Kosh (and, indeed, any Vorlon) is a telepath rated P15..." Main Book, p.141, Kosh's description.

The enhanced Lyta will probably also be a P15, as will most Ancients, while the Thirdspace aliens, the Mindriders, the Triad and Lorien (and possibly Ironheart after "becoming") may be rated P20...

As for the not-so-ancient races... I'd assume P12 will be the highest there too, with maybe a handful of exceptions. So I could see the Vree reaching P13 (after all, they all have a limited form of telepathy... so when one of 'em gets an unlimited form of telepathy that might mean an advantage...); and certainly some mid-born races (we never saw those in the show, but they'd be the races the Shadows and Vorlons played with before the rise of the "current younger races" - remember, even the oldest, the Yolu, are in space for only a few thousand years, while we know from Lyta's "flashback" in Thirdspace that the Vorlons "brought order to a thousand worlds" as long as a million years before our time... seems to me that this would have been the start of their role as "galactic shepherds"; so that'd mean thousands of races they annoyed with their cryptic statements over the ages... and since the Shadows "were already old when the ancients were still young" -JMS confirms they're older then any other ancient, though only slightly in case of the Walkers-, they would certainly have opposed those order-fanatics back then too..) could reach P13...

 

[frobisher]

The enhanced Lyta will probably also be a P15

I'd peg here at 13 or 14, Ulkesh found no problem stopping Lyta's probe - after all, she was created by the Vorlon's. Most of her power comes from experience and the nifty new feats she got to develop

As for the not-so-ancient races... I'd assume P12 will be the highest there too, with maybe a handful of exceptions.

Given that the vast majority of telepaths are meant to have been engineered by the Vorlons, I'd say they built them to pretty much the same spec. Certainly, they'd be made to be inferior.

Naturally evolved teeps might be a different thing entirely. For the campaign that I ran previously, we latched onto the statement in the Psi Corps trilogy that only 80 (or was it 70?)% of (human) teeps could be determined by genetic testing.

Perhaps, these were the ones carrying the Vorlon genetic markers in the mitachondri (and I know I've spelt that wrong). Now, as I (flakely) understand it, this is carried from the female line, if you can eliminate 50% of those as having a vorlon modified teep dna coming from the male line alone, you're left with a significant portion of teeps with no vorlon heritage at all. The naturally evolved ones, perhaps? Which may be where some of the more "interesting" talents come from, such as telekenisis (damn, we need a spell checker here ...). Certainly, Lyta never demonstrated TK (that I can remember), and it would explain Kosh's interest in Talia (more good genetic material to play with...).

The Drakh definately seem to have a different set of talents with reagrds their telepathy, than the "Vorlon" package so were probably natural evolved (or perhaps modified by the Shadows..?).

 

[ShadowScout]

I'd peg here at 13 or 14, Ulkesh found no problem stopping Lyta's probe...

Actually not - remember, her probe got through; that's how she knew what the Vorlons were doing ("...gone? what - the colony?" "No, the Planet"). Ulkesh just punished her afterwards for daring to "know his thoughts". That's what made me peg her as P15 in the first place - she actually managed to read a Vorlon's mind... sure, Unkesh didn't expect it, otherwise she probably wouldn't have been able to (remember, those Vorlons have Thousands of years experience... a high-powered YR individual may take them by surprise, but when they're ready for a fight you better bring an army to offset their immense advantages in skill & quality with lots of quantity... and even that may not always work out unless you have a first one at your side)

Certainly, Lyta never demonstrated TK...

Well... the "slaps" she gave the bloodhounds may have been TK, or may have been telepathic induced "hallucinations"... but no telepathic power I know of can short-circuit video cameras in her cell, or unlock her handcuffs (those actually were partially disassembled IIRC). For that you Need TK. So the Vorlons must have given her TK - it just took her some time to access the power buried in her subconcious.

The Drakh definately seem to have a different set of talents with reagrds their telepathy, than the "Vorlon" package so were probably natural evolved (or perhaps modified by the Shadows..?).

I'd say tinkered with by the Shadows.
Why should they play fair when the Vorlons cheat so blatantly with evolution? Especially with their closest minion races? OK, so they may not have been able to do large-scale manipulations of all races around (I'd think that might be a bit difficult with their hibernation cycles, and if they discovered the Vorlon meddling only recently they wouldn't have had the time to do such a thing), but they certainly were willing and able to "enhance" certain races... if those races wanted that (and we know of at least One race that wanted something like that when a shady agent asked them that certain question... - the Taratimude IIRC; those who would become the first technomages a thousand years before B5...).

 

[frobisher]

That's what made me peg her as P15 in the first place - she actually managed to read a Vorlon's mind... sure, Unkesh didn't expect it, otherwise she probably wouldn't have been able to/quote]

Mind you, going by her stats in the book, that kind of thing is her speciality so she probably got past on finesse rather than shear grunt P rating.

So the Vorlons must have given her TK - it just took her some time to access the power buried in her subconcious.

I'd forgotten about those. Though for the latter two effects, I'd say not TK but the ability to influence/read electronics pretty directly. Lyta was just not to be messed with really

Why should they play fair when the Vorlons cheat so blatantly with evolution?

I'd expect no less, though it may suit the Shadow mindset to make minions of one of the more evolved races as a reward.

 

[ShadowScout]

Though for the latter two effects, I'd say not TK but the ability to influence/read electronics pretty directly.

And what the hell would you call that if not TK? It makes little difference if you move great whole chunks of matter, or just a couple of single electrons - it's still moving stuff with your mind.
(though if you can do that trick with electrons, you can also do it with molecules, making those shake harder, which translates into heat on the big scale... so don't get Lyta angry later in her life, or you may just experience spontanous combustion)

 

[Anonymous]

so don't get Lyta angry later in her life, or you may just experience spontanous combustion)

Without a doubt you are quite correct:!: :twisted:

I would say that she had TK as well as Clarivoyance. She demonstrated that by looking for a way out of Downbelow when the Telepaths had holed up in there.

She also demonstrated an Amazing range as well (or she did not literally have to see what she wanted to affect, ie the Shadow augmented telepaths that were secreted aboard the Earth Force Destroyers orbiting Mars, at least 100 Km up!).

It is the same for the Rouge Telepaths that were in Downbelow. They sensed the Bloodhounds when they came on board B5 and that was over 2 miles away, through a lot of steel. The Line of Sight thing is something that occurs with Scanning someone, especially Deep Scans.

The Psi Cop that met Bester at the end of Dust to Dust said something similar "I have been trying to communicate with you since we came through the gate." Bester said something about the Sleepers and that it did not matter anyway. So from that it seems that Telepaths can comunicate with each other over a farther distance with each other.

There does seem to be some basics to Telepath no matter what the race. A Mind Shield or Block is central, otherwise Accidental Scans occur. To a new telepath who does not know how to build a Block, they can seem insane.

The next thing is Concentration. Until a being can do something without thinking about it, concentration is always important. It also seems to complement the Telepathy. By concentrating, a telepath quites their own mind and is able to drop the blocks and get more information or reach a deeper level of scan. Again the Rogue Telepaths, "Can't you sense it. Drop the blocks that the mundanes make us put up." - Byron. Also Bester demonstrated it when he was attempting to reach his lover. This is the equal to the a full defense and maybe there should be a Feat for being able to reach even deeper. +4 to Telepathy uses, -4 to Will saves.

The more powerful the telepath is, the more difficult to block out the noise of stray thoughts. Alyssa is a strong P10 and before Talia taught her how to build a Block, she could not even think. So she takes -10 to concentration which if she has only a 1 in the the skill, she would take a -9 to any Int modifier.

Power represented by Psi Rating. Range should at least be in Meters if not more as represented in the shows. To make other humans comfortable, the LoS limitation seems to be something to lull the masses into a false sense of security. The more powerful a telepath the farther they can go and they can use the power through more materials, ie, steel, lead, etc.

Just some food for thought.

 

[frobisher]

And what the hell would you call that if not TK? It makes little difference if you move great whole chunks of matter, or just a couple of single electrons - it's still moving stuff with your mind.

Er, nope. Think of her as an EMP projector Direct manipulation/observation of atomic and below sized particles would put here at Ironheart's level and that she isn't. Hell, the Vorlons aren't at that level...

Influencing electronics is a more gross scale effect than influencing particular electrons.

 

[ShadowScout]

Er, nope. Think of her as an EMP projector Direct manipulation/observation of atomic and below sized particles would put here at Ironheart's level and that she isn't.

Depends... But she can't be "just an EMP projector" without the ability to manipulate subatomic particles, not without technical help, which she didn't have.
The way I see it, the difference between those levels is a kind of "fine control" thing - Ironheard can observe and manipulate every single atom and particle, Lyta and the Vorlons can just do general things, like "blindly" pushing all electrons in that wire this way, or making all molecules in that piece of matter shake harder, etc. Yet the basic power is (and must be) the same...

 

[frobisher]

Depends... But she can't be "just an EMP projector" without the ability to manipulate subatomic particles, not without technical help, which she didn't have.

Remember we're in the very dodgy realms of telekenesis and reality here...

The way I see it, the difference between those levels is a kind of "fine control" thing - Ironheard can observe and manipulate every single atom and particle, Lyta and the Vorlons can just do general things, like "blindly" pushing all electrons in that wire this way, or making all molecules in that piece of matter shake harder, etc. Yet the basic power is (and must be) the same...

Nope. The first can be done, pure and simple by an applied EM field otherwise if you "just" blindly push all the electrons, how is the discrimiation from non-electrons done?

If she could make that distinction, then she's at the Ironheart levels - she isn't.

An applied EM field would just work and discriminate based upon the laws of physics (electrons have a charge, therefore will react). Awareness of the currents and fields surrounding you could be judged purely by the interaction with your own field(s).

The second example, is really a case of energy projection into a mass.

The fusion of these two powers, with considerably more finesse than Lyta (or indeed most ancients) would be capable of would give you Ironheart's ability.

These two abilities are distinct, but right at the top end are related

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input everyone

 

[Silk]

OOP! forgot to login, thanx for the input all.

 

[Serenn]

uhh.. minbari can be higher than 12, given for racial types and the small crest feat and the like.. you can be a technical p15, although, its actually lower, just the way to treat it..

again, this is down to Vorlon manipulation...

 

[LoneStranger]

So basically the short form is this:

If it's a playable race, the upper limit is P12 unless the Vorlons take an unhealthy interest in you. (really the fact the Vorlons are interested is enough to make it unhealthy).

Modified members of a race can get up to about P15 or P16 if they strain really hard and possibly dislocate a hemisphere of their brain.

Ancient races are Pthey win.

 

[Matt]

how come thirdspace alien gets so how p ratings ?

 

[frobisher]

how come thirdspace alien gets so how p ratings ?

Because they could dominate Vorlons..?

 

[EricRoss]

Here is Ardenn, my Minbari telepath. He was rolled as a P12, but then took the 'Small Crest' feat at 1st level to get him to P13, and as a Kira Zhe he functions as two P-ratings higher, so he is effectivly a P15, just as strong as Kosh...a Psi-Cops worst nightmare. You can also see that even at third level he is already formidable and the will save to resist most of his abilities is 19.


Ardenn
Level 3 Minbari [Kira Zhe] Telepath (P13 [P15])
Hit Points: 8 Initiative: 8 Speed: 30 DV: 13 DR: 0
Attacks: Melee: +3, Ranged: +4
Abilities: Str: 12, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 14, Wis: 12, Cha: 12
Saves: Fort: 2, Ref: 3, Will: 4, (Opponents Telepathy DC: 19)
Skills: Computer Use (5), Concentration (5), Diplomacy (5), Knowledge (Religion) (6), Knowledge (Telepathy) (5), Profession (Priest) (2), Sense Motive (5), Telepathy (7)
Weapons: pistol
Feats & SQ: Accidental Scan, Combat Telepath, Improved Initiative, Mind Shield, Religious Caste (Knowledge - Telepathy), Sense Telepathy, Small Crest, Skill Focus (Knowledge-Religion), Surface Scan, Warning

Equipment: Religious Caste robes.