Agggh

[DrSkull]

While I do admit I generally really like the new Mongoose Traveller, I'm a little heartbroken about one thing. There are no rules for when vehicles and starships fight one another.

This was always a big problem with CT. You could get it to work with Striker/High Guard more or less, and MT too. The more recent Traveller versions all had it covered pretty well.

But, it isn't covered at all in MGT. I've always found that this is a situation that crops up all of the time. I've had tanks firing on Free Traders, Cutters firing at ATV's, jet planes dogfighting space fighters on a whole host of occasions. I'm hoping that there are a lot more weapons and vehicles in Mercenary and that the rules will be there, but they are indeed necessary things to have.

 

[charliebananas]

I haven't got that far yet but doesn't combat p.66 vehicles and p146 Space combat cover it, or at least give you enough to work with?

 

[charliebananas]

Double post

 

[DrSkull]

I haven't got that far yet but doesn't combat p.66 vehicles and p146 Space combat cover it, or at least give you enough to work with?

As far as I can tell thus far, the armor and damage for vehicle and space combat are not on the same scale, and there's no way to convert. For example, a Launch (small craft) has Armor 0 (spacecraft). An air/raft has armor 2 (vehicle). A spaceship pulse laser does 1d6 damage (space scale), but a laser on an AFV does 4d6 (personal combat). These numbers are in no way compatible. the "armor" on a spacegoing launch must be far more rugged than for an air/raft. and a spaceship laser gun is far more destructive than a laser carbine (the equivalent of the AFV laser), and there's no forumla for conversion if one happens to shoot at the other.

 

[B_Steele]

I added a "Ground Forces versus Spacecraft" section in the new Combat Rules for Mercenary.

All is well.

-Bry

 

[DrSkull]

You are awesome

 

[SSWarlock]

I added a "Ground Forces versus Spacecraft" section in the new Combat Rules for Mercenary.

All is well.

-Bry

BLESS YOU!!!!

 

[-Daniel-]

Once again Mongoose Listens to the people.

Well done.

Daniel

 

[apoc527]

Sounds like Mercenary and High Guard are going to add a lot to MGT. And from what I've read, the base book of MGT is quite functional in and of itself. That's pretty impressive. Can't wait to see the other books!

 

[charliebananas]

I haven't got that far yet but doesn't combat p.66 vehicles and p146 Space combat cover it, or at least give you enough to work with?

As far as I can tell thus far, the armor and damage for vehicle and space combat are not on the same scale, and there's no way to convert. For example, a Launch (small craft) has Armor 0 (spacecraft). An air/raft has armor 2 (vehicle). A spaceship pulse laser does 1d6 damage (space scale), but a laser on an AFV does 4d6 (personal combat). These numbers are in no way compatible. the "armor" on a spacegoing launch must be far more rugged than for an air/raft. and a spaceship laser gun is far more destructive than a laser carbine (the equivalent of the AFV laser), and there's no forumla for conversion if one happens to shoot at the other.

Ahhh ok I see where you're coming from, that is a bit of a problem, and while adding rules for it in other books is OK, that should really be dealt with in the core rules...

 

[-Daniel-]

Ahhh ok I see where you're coming from, that is a bit of a problem, and while adding rules for it in other books is OK, that should really be dealt with in the core rules...

Well at least they did not do the $40 for a "Player's Handbook" with only half the rules needed to play any part of the game and then charge another $40 for the "GM's Guide" with the other half of the basic rules. :roll:

The idea they did not include every rule ever needed for all situations in the basic book that is just that, a basic book, does not bother me. I think every rule in every book going forward could have been in the basic book, but can I do everything I want between the basic book and my ability as a GM? Yes.

Just my point of view.

Daniel

 

[Myrm]

I haven't got that far yet but doesn't combat p.66 vehicles and p146 Space combat cover it, or at least give you enough to work with?

As far as I can tell thus far, the armor and damage for vehicle and space combat are not on the same scale, and there's no way to convert. For example, a Launch (small craft) has Armor 0 (spacecraft). An air/raft has armor 2 (vehicle). A spaceship pulse laser does 1d6 damage (space scale), but a laser on an AFV does 4d6 (personal combat). These numbers are in no way compatible. the "armor" on a spacegoing launch must be far more rugged than for an air/raft. and a spaceship laser gun is far more destructive than a laser carbine (the equivalent of the AFV laser), and there's no forumla for conversion if one happens to shoot at the other.

Ahhh ok I see where you're coming from, that is a bit of a problem, and while adding rules for it in other books is OK, that should really be dealt with in the core rules...

The core rulebook has a conversion figure for spaceship to personal 50 fold from memory. There appears to be a scaling of personal to vehicle with the AFV laser doing 4d6 personal - how much does it do to the vehicle? While it has not been put in there explicitly you should be able to do a conversion.

If the AFV is 1d6 on vehicles then do a 10 fold vehicle to spaceship conversion for ease - 12 fold for accurate (actually 12 fold might be easier for a d6 based system is some ways). If its 4d6 to vehicles then personal and vehicle are the same scale and the 50 fold kicks in.

 

[Chronus]

The core rulebook has a conversion figure for spaceship to personal 50 fold from memory.

The square inset on page 151 is what I think you're referring to.

 

[Myrm]

If thats the one that says 'sandcasters do 8d6' then yes

 

[Golan2072]

If thats the one that says 'sandcasters do 8d6' then yes

Yes, this is the one

The core rulebook has a conversion figure for spaceship to personal 50 fold from memory. There appears to be a scaling of personal to vehicle with the AFV laser doing 4d6 personal - how much does it do to the vehicle? While it has not been put in there explicitly you should be able to do a conversion.

Vehicles are affected by normal personnel damage, which is converted to hits according to the p.67 and is not direct (as higher damage sometimes causes the same number of hits, but to the same location rather than to several different locations); however, each "step" of vehicle damage is usually 3 personnel damage points.

If 50 personnel damage points equal one ship damage point, then some personal-grade weapons (read: PGMP's and FGMP's) might damage ships. One option is to use 50 damage as a "threshold" - that is, every 50 personnel damage points ROUNDED DOWN cause one ship damage points. The disadvantage of this is that you'll have to roll both the weapon's damage dice and on the ship's damage tables. A faster alternative is to say that any personnel/vehicle weapon causing 9d6 personnel damage (i.e. capable of rolling 50 or more damage even with Effect 0) or more always cause one ship damage roll if they hit the ship, and that anything causing 18d6 damage or more does 2 ship hits.

EDIT: If you want to make ships a little bit more vulnerable (in game-world terms, have vulnerable spots), allow any hit with Effect 6 or more AND a weapon causing 4d6 or more damage to cause a single ship hit on an unarmored ship.

 

[gerzel]

While you guys are at it, might as well throw in rules on what happens when personal weapons are fired off inside a ship, just what the chances are of something important being hit.

 

[B_Steele]

While you guys are at it, might as well throw in rules on what happens when personal weapons are fired off inside a ship, just what the chances are of something important being hit.

Already did. It was more on account of someone making called shots to open airlocks or such, but they could easily be used for weapons fire inside a craft, too.

-Bry

 

[zozotroll]

While you guys are at it, might as well throw in rules on what happens when personal weapons are fired off inside a ship, just what the chances are of something important being hit.

Already did. It was more on account of someone making called shots to open airlocks or such, but they could easily be used for weapons fire inside a craft, too.

-Bry[/quo]
It is almost like you have played this game before and have some idea of what players might want to do. A refreshing change from some other games where that does not seem to be true for the writers.

Please keep this up, and tell me you are writing Merchant Prince!

 

[Golan2072]

While you guys are at it, might as well throw in rules on what happens when personal weapons are fired off inside a ship, just what the chances are of something important being hit.

First, we should keep in mind that the outer hull of any Traveller starship, as well as the heavy equipment (power-plant core, coolant tubes, drives, fuel tanks, life-support gear airlock doors and their mechanisms and probably even the landing gear when folded) are quite hardened in order to minimize damage from ship-grade weapon hits; IMTU part of the ship armor tonnage goes to armor some of these systems (especially the power-plant and the life-support systems) as well as the outer hull. What would be more vulnerable would be the more delicate sub-systems, such as computer consoles, medlab gear, display screens, instrument panels, internal walls/doors, furniture, light fixtures and personal gear.

In other words, if you fire an assault rifle in full auto in the engineering compartment you won't puncture the reactor or even the coolant tubes; at worst you'll tear some holes into a control console or two (and, if the main controls are damaged, the reactor won't overload or something; it has failsafes for the occasion that an incoming missile blasts the control consoles when it hits the engineering compartment). If you discharge full auto in a stateroom, you won't puncture the outer hull, but you might ruin the furniture, the computer console, the fluorescent light fixtures and maybe the internal (non-pressure-tight) door or walls. If you discharge full auto on the bridge you might ruin the control consoles, but not the main computer mainframe (tucked away safely under some armor); the ship would still be flyable (barely so) using a main-computer hookup. If you discharge full auto in an airlock you might ruin the vacc-suits stored in its locker, but not its doors or mechanism (everything in an airlock, down to indicator lights and cycle switches, would be hardened). The same goes to frag grenades, shotguns and other relatively-weak weapons.

Now, if you fire an FGMP-14 in your engineering compartment, things would be VERY different.

---

What I suggest is the following:

Small-arm fire and light explosives (i.e. frag grenades) never cause critical ship damage. Damage to controls, furnishing, personal possessions, sensitive medlab/science equipment and so on should be adjudicated by the referee as deemed appropriate.

Lasers and directed explosives (i.e. rockets and shaped charges) MIGHT cause accidental damage to the hull or critical ship systems, though this is rare. If a shot with one of these weapons misses AND has and Effect of -6 or worse, roll 1d6; on 1, cause one point of ship damage to any one appropriate ship system (e.g. if you're fighting in Engineering, it'll damage the PP, JD or MD, Referee's choice); on 2-6, cause a minor hull-breach (a hole a few cm across at most).

PGMP's and FGMP's are very dangerous to use onboard a ship. Damage is caused if you miss and have an Effect of -2 or worse, or if it overpenetrates your target (see "Serious Firepower" on p.102) with at least 25 damage points remaining AND your Effect is +1 or worse. If you cause damage, roll 1d6; on 1, cause one point of ship damage to any one appropriate ship system (e.g. if you're fighting in Engineering, it'll damage the PP, JD or MD, Referee's choice); on 2-6, cause a hull-breach (a gaping hole in the hull; reduce the Hull rating by one).

If a pocket-nuke (p.102) detonates within the ship, the ship is usually destroyed...

EDIT: Armored ships should probably be immune to hull breach or critical system damage by anything man-portable (except for that pocket-nuke, that is...). The shots would still damage consoles/displays and so on, but not the hull or the main systems (e.g. JD, MD, PP and so on).