vladthemad
Mongoose
Greetings, I could use some more help with rules clarification...this might be a running theme with my posts as all of the following came up just during ONE player's character generation and we have four characters to go! Anyway, onto the long intro for my first question!
In the Main Rulebook, the table on page 5 states "Military characters (army, navy, marines) can roll for commission instead of rolling for advancement." Further in the book, it's a bit confusing because page 8 states commission rolls are optional, and page 9 states advancement rolls are mandatory for each term, even if an event already promoted you once...leading to a possible two promotions a term. No mention of commissions are made related to that possible double advancement due to events, or rolling advancement after a commission that I saw. I assumed that the table was correct because it's more clearly stated that it's either/or, mandatory advancement roll rule aside. That was until we looked in High Guard...
Now, in Book 2 High Guard the character creation example on page 40 shows that in the first term Harek gets an event that gives +4 on his next advancement roll. The example then states that he uses that +4 to gain his commission (as advancement DMs can be applied to commissions in the core rules), and then makes his advancement roll, bumping him to O2 in his first term, thus gaining a commission AND an advancement after.
So, is the commission roll instead of or in addition to the advancement roll?
I assume you can change assignment within a career path as desired while in that career path without needing to requalify. I also assume if you leave one assignment for a different career, you can't come back to a different assignment in the previous career. Which leads me to my next question...
This relates mostly to High Guard and the Scout books. In the core rules, if you leave one path, you can't return to it. Each path has three specialties. If you leave the scouts, you can't return to the scouts, if you're kicked out of the navy, you can't return to the navy barring the draft. Anyway, with the High Guard and Scout books the paths/assignments for these services are greatly expanded. Do I treat each section of the expanded navy/scouts as it's own career path with three assignments like the careers in the core rulebook, or do I treat them all as one HUGE path with dozens of assignments? I assume I need to roll for qualification if I switch from scout-courier-xboat to scout-contact-diplomacy, is this correct? If I leave scout-courier to do a term or two in merchant, can I come back to scout-contact or am I out of the scouts all together?
On to more vagueness in the rules! On page 10 of High Guard, result 65 of the event table for crewmen states "You impress a visiting officer so much you may automatically enter a path of service of your choice that you have the qualifications for." Qualification is generally a stat roll you need to beat in the core rules, but in High Guard (and upon checking this is also in Book 1 Mercenary) there's also the previous service qualification that if met allows you to automatically qualify. If that's the case in both instances this event doesn't seem to give any benefit. So what exactly are they driving at here?
Also related to that, in the character creation example in High Guard on page 40 Harek rolls to transfer to the Pilot path after reaching O2 as a crewman in his first term. He rolls for qualification, and it lists his rolls and DMs. Now according to the chart on page 5 and the previous service area listed under pilot on page 23, he should have automatically qualified with the one term in the navy he spent as a crewman. After being ejected on his third term in a subsector navy, for his forth term he joins a planetary navy as a pilot, automatically qualifying due to previously having (I assume they mean "at least") two naval terms. This appears to be that the rules were changed after the example was created as they don't seem to match, am I correct in this assumption?
Also in the case of High Guard, many of the rules seem vaguely contradictory. Page 4 states "Some of the more exalted careers can only be reached by working your way up the ranks.", but all paths have a qualification roll...albeit some of them are VERY unlikely to be made. Still, with a INT roll of 12 you could go right into high command for your first term. On top of that, page 6 talks about jumping rank and how it gives negative DM modifiers to your qualification roll if you move to a career that your current rank falls outside of the min and max of. If you do make that adjusted qualification roll and you are below the minimum rank, you are automatically promoted. The problem is that all the paths have a previous service qualification that allows you to circumvent all of that. If I finish my first term as a crewman with no promotions, I can jump up to an E3 simply by switching to the Flight path with the one naval term previous service qualification. If I manage to get a commission while on flight, I'm automatically boosted to O2. If I then leave flight as an O2 after two terms, I qualify for command with my three previous terms and am boosted to an O5. Heck, you could even do six terms as a crewman and as long as you gained a commission you could jump right up to O6 by joining high command with your automatic qualification due to your previous six terms.
Basically that all boils down to the rules on page 4 stating that it's a qualification roll OR previous service, but everything seems to be written towards requiring a qualification roll AND previous service. If that latter were true things would make a lot more sense...and it'd be a lot harder to get into high command! Can someone clarify?
Also regarding ranks, if they carry from one path to the next in the navy and each path has it's own mustering out table, how does this work exactly? Do you muster out each time you change a path or do you only muster out with your highest rank from your last path or every time you change path? The latter is how it appears in the character creation example given in High Guard and Scouts, but as noted the character creation examples are already considered suspect by me :wink: . The problem I see is if the a player were to game the system as above, they could remain in the relatively safe position of crewman in the imperial navy for six terms, and automatically qualify for High Command on their seventh and final term due to the previous service qualification. All their benefits would then be on the High Command table. The other option is to treat each path as a separate career, but then you run into the problem that ranks carry over giving more benefit rolls than usual. In the core rules, if I muster out and change careers, my rank is set back to 0 in my new career. In the expanded navy rules my rank carries giving me ever more benefits for each new career path I take.
Also, is rank separate between the planetary, subsector, and imperial navies? Are you only supposed to take your mustering out benefits when you leave the navy all together, or do you take it each time you leave one for another? In the Harek example (yep again) on page 40, when he goes from crewman to pilot in the subsector navy, he doesn't take benefits. When he leaves as a subsector pilot to become a planetary navy pilot, he does take his benefits. While that makes sense to me, I just want clarification as the example seems wrong on other points. Also I can't tell if they are saying his rank carried over when he went from subsector to planetary or if he just happened to stay the same rank because he was at the minimum rank for that career.
Whew! That was a lot to get organized! Thanks to anyone who bothered to read all the way through, and double thanks to any that can shed light on these questions!
In the Main Rulebook, the table on page 5 states "Military characters (army, navy, marines) can roll for commission instead of rolling for advancement." Further in the book, it's a bit confusing because page 8 states commission rolls are optional, and page 9 states advancement rolls are mandatory for each term, even if an event already promoted you once...leading to a possible two promotions a term. No mention of commissions are made related to that possible double advancement due to events, or rolling advancement after a commission that I saw. I assumed that the table was correct because it's more clearly stated that it's either/or, mandatory advancement roll rule aside. That was until we looked in High Guard...
Now, in Book 2 High Guard the character creation example on page 40 shows that in the first term Harek gets an event that gives +4 on his next advancement roll. The example then states that he uses that +4 to gain his commission (as advancement DMs can be applied to commissions in the core rules), and then makes his advancement roll, bumping him to O2 in his first term, thus gaining a commission AND an advancement after.
So, is the commission roll instead of or in addition to the advancement roll?
I assume you can change assignment within a career path as desired while in that career path without needing to requalify. I also assume if you leave one assignment for a different career, you can't come back to a different assignment in the previous career. Which leads me to my next question...
This relates mostly to High Guard and the Scout books. In the core rules, if you leave one path, you can't return to it. Each path has three specialties. If you leave the scouts, you can't return to the scouts, if you're kicked out of the navy, you can't return to the navy barring the draft. Anyway, with the High Guard and Scout books the paths/assignments for these services are greatly expanded. Do I treat each section of the expanded navy/scouts as it's own career path with three assignments like the careers in the core rulebook, or do I treat them all as one HUGE path with dozens of assignments? I assume I need to roll for qualification if I switch from scout-courier-xboat to scout-contact-diplomacy, is this correct? If I leave scout-courier to do a term or two in merchant, can I come back to scout-contact or am I out of the scouts all together?
On to more vagueness in the rules! On page 10 of High Guard, result 65 of the event table for crewmen states "You impress a visiting officer so much you may automatically enter a path of service of your choice that you have the qualifications for." Qualification is generally a stat roll you need to beat in the core rules, but in High Guard (and upon checking this is also in Book 1 Mercenary) there's also the previous service qualification that if met allows you to automatically qualify. If that's the case in both instances this event doesn't seem to give any benefit. So what exactly are they driving at here?
Also related to that, in the character creation example in High Guard on page 40 Harek rolls to transfer to the Pilot path after reaching O2 as a crewman in his first term. He rolls for qualification, and it lists his rolls and DMs. Now according to the chart on page 5 and the previous service area listed under pilot on page 23, he should have automatically qualified with the one term in the navy he spent as a crewman. After being ejected on his third term in a subsector navy, for his forth term he joins a planetary navy as a pilot, automatically qualifying due to previously having (I assume they mean "at least") two naval terms. This appears to be that the rules were changed after the example was created as they don't seem to match, am I correct in this assumption?
Also in the case of High Guard, many of the rules seem vaguely contradictory. Page 4 states "Some of the more exalted careers can only be reached by working your way up the ranks.", but all paths have a qualification roll...albeit some of them are VERY unlikely to be made. Still, with a INT roll of 12 you could go right into high command for your first term. On top of that, page 6 talks about jumping rank and how it gives negative DM modifiers to your qualification roll if you move to a career that your current rank falls outside of the min and max of. If you do make that adjusted qualification roll and you are below the minimum rank, you are automatically promoted. The problem is that all the paths have a previous service qualification that allows you to circumvent all of that. If I finish my first term as a crewman with no promotions, I can jump up to an E3 simply by switching to the Flight path with the one naval term previous service qualification. If I manage to get a commission while on flight, I'm automatically boosted to O2. If I then leave flight as an O2 after two terms, I qualify for command with my three previous terms and am boosted to an O5. Heck, you could even do six terms as a crewman and as long as you gained a commission you could jump right up to O6 by joining high command with your automatic qualification due to your previous six terms.
Basically that all boils down to the rules on page 4 stating that it's a qualification roll OR previous service, but everything seems to be written towards requiring a qualification roll AND previous service. If that latter were true things would make a lot more sense...and it'd be a lot harder to get into high command! Can someone clarify?
Also regarding ranks, if they carry from one path to the next in the navy and each path has it's own mustering out table, how does this work exactly? Do you muster out each time you change a path or do you only muster out with your highest rank from your last path or every time you change path? The latter is how it appears in the character creation example given in High Guard and Scouts, but as noted the character creation examples are already considered suspect by me :wink: . The problem I see is if the a player were to game the system as above, they could remain in the relatively safe position of crewman in the imperial navy for six terms, and automatically qualify for High Command on their seventh and final term due to the previous service qualification. All their benefits would then be on the High Command table. The other option is to treat each path as a separate career, but then you run into the problem that ranks carry over giving more benefit rolls than usual. In the core rules, if I muster out and change careers, my rank is set back to 0 in my new career. In the expanded navy rules my rank carries giving me ever more benefits for each new career path I take.
Also, is rank separate between the planetary, subsector, and imperial navies? Are you only supposed to take your mustering out benefits when you leave the navy all together, or do you take it each time you leave one for another? In the Harek example (yep again) on page 40, when he goes from crewman to pilot in the subsector navy, he doesn't take benefits. When he leaves as a subsector pilot to become a planetary navy pilot, he does take his benefits. While that makes sense to me, I just want clarification as the example seems wrong on other points. Also I can't tell if they are saying his rank carried over when he went from subsector to planetary or if he just happened to stay the same rank because he was at the minimum rank for that career.
Whew! That was a lot to get organized! Thanks to anyone who bothered to read all the way through, and double thanks to any that can shed light on these questions!
