Adrift, All Stop!, All Stop and Pivot

[B5freak]

Ran into this one the other day and wound up dicing off. The Adrift rules state that a ship running adrift may still perform special actions (SA). Does this apply to All Stop? In real-world terms, it would seem silly that a ship running adrift could execute an All Stop, but the wording of the rules would seem to allow it.

How about All Stop and Pivot? What if I declare All Stop in the movement phase and then get an Adrift result in the shooting phase? Do I still drift in the end phase? How far? Also, could I then execute an All Stop and Pivot in the following turn? Per the rules, I can still execute an SA even through I'm Adrift, and I did execute an All Stop in the previous turn, so all the prerequisites seem to be in place.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Ran into this one the other day and wound up dicing off. The Adrift rules state that a ship running adrift may still perform special actions (SA). Does this apply to All Stop? In real-world terms, it would seem silly that a ship running adrift could execute an All Stop, but the wording of the rules would seem to allow it.

How about All Stop and Pivot? What if I declare All Stop in the movement phase and then get an Adrift result in the shooting phase? Do I still drift in the end phase? How far? Also, could I then execute an All Stop and Pivot in the following turn? Per the rules, I can still execute an SA even through I'm Adrift, and I did execute an All Stop in the previous turn, so all the prerequisites seem to be in place.

Hi there,

Yes, if no other rules are pertaining to your ship (there usually will be!), you could All Stop - won't do you a lot of good, as you wouldn't be moving in the Movement Phase anyway, and you _will_ be moving in the End Phase.

Hope that helps!

 

[B5freak]

Lots, thanks! What about the All Stop and Pivot? If I drift in the End phase, am I still eligible for an All Stop and Pivot?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Lots, thanks! What about the All Stop and Pivot? If I drift in the End phase, am I still eligible for an All Stop and Pivot?

Yes, in theory - but it won't stop you drifting in the End Phase, just stop you moving in the Movement Phase (where you won't be moving anyway!).

 

[Foxmeister]

Doesn't this rather mean that an adrift ship could still change its firing arc or boresight targets using "All Stop and Pivot" - is that the intention?

Regards,

Dave

 

[Iain McGhee]

I don't think so. An Adrift ship moves in a straight line at half speed in the End Phase. No choice in the matter. As Matt said above, it doesn't matter what SA you give it as AS and ASAP (or any other movement SA) only work in the movement phase and an Adrift ship moves in the end phase as per the rules.

 

[Davesaint]

I believe what Matt said was that All Stop wouldn't keep you from drifting. However, would you be able to change facing using All Stop and Pivot.

Example:

A Ship on Turn 1 Executes an All Stop action. During the fire step He takes an Adrift Critical

Can a ship on Turn 2 now use the All Stop and Pivot Special Action? The ship performed the requisite special action in the prior turn that would make him eligable. Since the ship drifts in the end phase, is this considered moving in the prior turn for ASAP.


Consequences of this ruling - By allowing a ship to pivot, you are allowing the drifting ship to change facing and bring more weapons to bear. Also, if you repair the critical, you have allowed the ship to accelerate in a different direct than the drift.


Dave

 

[AdrianH]

Better yet, if you don't repair the critical, you get to steer while drifting!

Turn 1: ship gets its engines disabled by a critical and drifts on a certain course during the end phase.
Turn 2: ship declares All Stop and Pivot (or turn 3, if it must first declare All Stop in turn 2). As ACTA can't split movement direction from facing direction, during the end phase the ship will drift whichever way it's pointing after pivoting in the movement phase. It has just altered the course of its drift; in other words, it's steering.

 

[mollari_uk]

I don't know the exact wording but doesn't "All Stop and Pivot" say that you must not have moved last turn? You did move last turn, in the end phase granted, but you you still moved.

So you can't use this SA.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

i tryed this. When i had a boresighted ship under this effect. By the wording of rules it should work. Nothing says it can't however however its the most cheesy thing i have ever seen done. And i did it mhuhahaha

 

[Foxmeister]

I don't know the exact wording but doesn't "All Stop and Pivot" say that you must not have moved last turn? You did move last turn, in the end phase granted, but you you still moved.

So you can't use this SA.

I've just checked and the wording is:

"So long as the ship used the All Stop! Special Action, or otherwise did not move in its last turn..."

Strictly speaking, the "or" clause means that only one of those conditions needs to be true, so "technically", in an exceedingly greasy rules-lawyery fashion, it's legal.

Personally, I don't believe that this was the intent, so I would never use it and I would definitely curl my lip if it was used against me.

I'd much rather Matt just flat out said that Adrift ships cannot use these SAs, rather than say you can but it won't do you a lot of good. A simple, "no they can't" would have ended this debate at the first post!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Davesaint]

I don't know the exact wording but doesn't "All Stop and Pivot" say that you must not have moved last turn? You did move last turn, in the end phase granted, but you you still moved.

So you can't use this SA.

I've just checked and the wording is:

"So long as the ship used the All Stop! Special Action, or otherwise did not move in its last turn..."

Strictly speaking, the "or" clause means that only one of those conditions needs to be true, so "technically", in an exceedingly greasy rules-lawyery fashion, it's legal.

Personally, I don't believe that this was the intent, so I would never use it and I would definitely curl my lip if it was used against me.

I'd much rather Matt just flat out said that Adrift ships cannot use these SAs, rather than say you can but it won't do you a lot of good. A simple, "no they can't" would have ended this debate at the first post!

Regards,

Dave

Actually I would prefer he did not rule that you cant use special actions. Just restrict which ones you can use. I don't have an issue with a ship using All Hands to Deck for example.


Dave

 

[Foxmeister]

Actually I would prefer he did not rule that you cant use special actions. Just restrict which ones you can use. I don't have an issue with a ship using All Hands to Deck for example.


Dave

Actually we are in agreement here - when I said "I'd much rather Matt just flat out said that Adrift ships cannot use these SAs", I was only thinking of the two mentioned here (All Stop, and All Stop and Pivot), but it should apply to any SA related to movement.

Regards,

Dave

 

[B5freak]

Actually, it think the point of the 'or' clause is to state, "if you didn't move at all last turn", meaning, you either executed All Stop or didn't move for some reason. Since being Adrif forces your ship to move in the End phase, an Adrift ship cannot execute the ASAP, even if it was on All Stop the turn before.

 

[Foxmeister]

Since Matt has said you can execute and All Stop SA whilst adrift, the statement "you either executed All Stop or didn't move for some reason" still evaluates to true if you use the SA whilst adrift. As I stated before, I don't like this intepretation at all, but it is perfectly logically consistent.

The reason for this is because a fully functioning ship which executes All Stop doesn't actually have to stop - it can move up to half it's normal movement distance, and a ship moving thus can still "All Stop and Pivot" on a subsequent turn. It this wasn't the intention, the rule would simple state that only ships that didn't move in the previous turn can "All Stop and Pivot" with no reference to "All Stop" whatsoever.

So, far better just to disallow these SAs from being performed by ships that are Adrift.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Burger]

A restriction of the AS&P is that you may not move this turn. So what happens if you execute it, and have to move in the end phase? Its a paradox!!!