Actions in the Action Step

[AnotherDilbert]

How are the number of actions in the Action Step limited?

E.g.: I have a small warship with 2 sensor suites, one countermeasures suit, and 10 dedicated sensor operators.
How many Sensor Lock and Electronic Warfare actions can I take each round?

 

[Nerhesi]

Good point - needs clarity.

As it stands, there is no limit and you simply attempt to detect and lock-on or break-lock-on to/from each target once.

So if you had 50 enemies, your 1 sensor operator would be rolling to detect, lock on, and break lock-on from 50 of them... (obviously this needs some limit)

 

[AnotherDilbert]

For sensors that is not unreasonable, but you can use the Electronic Warfare action to destroy missiles (Core p162). If all ships can attempt to destroy each missile each round not very many missiles would ever reach their target...

 

[Nerhesi]

For sensors that is not unreasonable, but you can use the Electronic Warfare action to destroy missiles (Core p162). If all ships can attempt to destroy each missile each round not very many missiles would ever reach their target...

Good catch - you're absolutely correct.

Also lends more flavour to having more sensor operators (or perhaps, like the automated gunnery software, another 1 rating per X missiles jam attempts). In either case, it needs to have some limit

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Sorry, not Andrew.

I think the crew formulas generally leads to woefully understaffed bridges, at least on warships.

 

[Chas]

I'd commented on the number of potential rolls for missiles in another thread, but has anybody actually gone through and play tested a full missile strike at this point using every variable? I haven't done so given screens still seem to be work in progress.

Edit: Ooops: missed the KISS thread before I posted this. That's also commenting on the same issue.

There's a few things like this that really need solid adjudicating to say to the final consumer/end-user picking up the books for the first time exactly how it is done.

 

[Nerhesi]

Attack roll
(optional) PD roll
(optional) Screen roll
Determine damage

This is a huge step up from previous MGT1 which has determine Hits from damage, and roll on systems chart for each hit and so on... So I'm completely fine with the 3-rolls above for any scale of combat as it is leagues beyond where we were in MGT1, and plays pretty fast in testing. (I guess that would mean you just roll to hit with missiles when they get to you, without having to roll to launch them first).

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Attack roll
(optional) PD roll
(optional) Screen roll
Determine damage

But the rules as written are not nearly as simple as that.
You have to keep record the relative movement of each salvo of missiles and their target to determine when they arrive. Each round in transit leads to potentially many EW rolls. When warships can zip around at 27 G and missiles lumber at 5 G being hit by missiles at all, or when, is very optional.
There is not a single PD roll, but many. Each ship can have a PD battery AND many laser turrets, each laser turret probably rolling several times. Many ships can PD against a single salvo. For each PD hit, torpedoes can save with a roll.
Determining damage can be in the region of five rolls since multi-warhead missiles seems attractive.

Space combat with a single Scout with a single missile rack might be fun, but even fighting with a reasonably built 400t patrol cruiser will be a nightmare of rolls.

If PD is nerfed reasonably, probably the best way to kill torpedoes is with the EW Action. Limiting EW actions will be necessary to allow torpedoes to be a significant threat.

 

[Nerhesi]

For small-scale, single ship or so combat, I still dont think all those rolls are an issue Dilbert (Granted, I'd still completely waive the initial missile launch gunner roll). But the multiple point defense and so on.. as long as we're talking under 12 missiles and so, I'd still say it's cinematic. I've run it very easily where I've had my players in their custom 4 Billion Credit 900-ton ship taking on 12-torps a round and it was very fast. This is in addition to their barbette/bay exchange with the enemy.

HOWEVER, it is a huge issue for capital scale combat. You're absolutely right.

For capital scale combat, when you have those 10+ missile bays shooting a target that is protected by, lets say, 120 turrets, and a 2x PD systems, then ironically it should be a simpler mechanic. As with many scifi games, the more detailed your combat is, the more it will be an issue in single-ship-on-ship combat situations, but will be abridged (but still accurate) in Fleet combat.

Again, this is based on the heavy assumption that Matt adopts mass-combat PD mechanics that several of us have been discussing (and I've submitted to Matt), which is something like the following:

A) Determine number of incoming missiles to strike this turn
B) Roll 2D and consult a table, (modifiers for crew skill, weapon type (beam or pulse laser), turret type (single, double, triple)) resulting in value X (a value that can range between 0.1 and 5.0 for example)
C) Multiply value X by the number of hardpoints doing point defense to determine # of missiles intercepted. (basically, crap crew, crap weapons and crap roll means maye 10% of your point defense is effective, and on the opposite end, the equivalent of every turret scores 5 hits/interceptions!)

One simple roll to handle ANY number of missiles striking during that turn.

However, you are correct in that you have to keep track of what missile volley is how far during each turn. Basically (3 turns to impact, 2 turns to impact, 1 turn to impact, etc). Still, with the above (or similar) simple systems, missiles becomes VERY easy to handle. I dont see a way around this part however, as it is inherent to the whole "missiles/torps take X turns to hit".

Point defense batteries can easily fit into this system (as Phavoc states, each one simply acts as X hardpoints on point defense - basically more efficient), and torpedoes are easy fit as well (2 missiles intercepted can be exchanged for 1 torp intercepted). Done and done. Easy peasy