Locutus9956
Mongoose
Actually make that 3 ideas....
ACTA vs B5Wars poll 3
- Thread starter Locutus9956
- Start date
Locutus9956
Mongoose
bump, the results are actually quite interesting so far if you look at all 3 
Captain Kremmen
Mongoose
Why are there so many polls on this subject? I know it's just to annoy me isn't it?
Thanks I didn't know you cared so much...
Cpt Kremmen
Thanks I didn't know you cared so much...
Cpt Kremmen
I voted on this one...I won't bother with ACTA poll 2 now that I've already skewed the results for ACTA poll 1...
You could have titled these things a little clearer for idiots like me Locutus!
Hey Captain Kremmen just PM'ed me, he's like to see another 3 polls asking pretty much the same thing but worded slightly different...honest he did :twisted:
You could have titled these things a little clearer for idiots like me Locutus!
Hey Captain Kremmen just PM'ed me, he's like to see another 3 polls asking pretty much the same thing but worded slightly different...honest he did :twisted:
I've probably played more games of CTA. I played B5W every weekend for about a year straight but quit playing about the time that the Wars of the Centauri Republic book came out. With all of the demos I used to run, the 2 campaigns, and a whole lot of pick up games I think I've played more CTA. Since it's the better game that's ok.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Never played B5W. Seems a bit over the top, even given my liking of detail and realism in a game. Plus I don't fancy hex grids on my gaming table...
I've played ACtA more, but only because one of our roving gaming groups at the store picked it up as a flavor of the month once. That let me get in a few games, before their interest dried up and they went on to something else. If this game store had existed when B5W was out, they probably would have done the same thing...
Having been in the B5Wars playtester from almost the beginnning. I have obviously played more B5Wars by virtue of B5Wars being around longer. I've also generated more web material for B5wars than I have for ACTA's but that has hardly stopped me from generating stuff for ATCA.
The comparison of B5wars to ACTA arms is actually unfair to both game systems since they attempt to simluate different scales. B5Wars is a task force skirmish game with 3 to 5 ships (and their fighters) on a side. ACTA's is a fleet level assault game with 10 to 12 ships (or more) on a side (and their fighters).
As the number of ships goes down, the details reguarding particular units must go up to maintain tactical variation. An extreme example of this is Attack Vector, which is largely a one player to one ship combat system that stresses tactical desicions on a level of where the firing of each individual weapon and its aim point becomes important. The advantage of this system, is that you can play a single ships and still have tons of decision making. You are the Captain of the ship....literally.
Star Fleet Battles increases the number of ships a single player can easily handle and, as a result, forgoes some of the details. Weapon systems are simplified, movement is no longer 3-d as in Attack Vector. I've played Star Fleet Battles since almost day 1 as well....especially loved the original expansion packs that made rule finding almost impossible).
B5Wars is largely in the same category as Star Fleet Battles. It has a somewhat more complicated weapon fire rules set and a more complicated movement system but does not have the shield and energy allocation complication. B5Wars is OK in my opinion in a single ship to single player level but is quite good with a couple of ships per player. It, like SFB, bogs down big time when you add more ships without adding more players (and it still bogs with the extra players, just not as bad).
Fleet Action and Fleet Action 2 by AoG were attempts to rectify the larger fleet engagement problem, with a completely new rule set. There was potential here but both had some massively glaring holes that were never overcome before the companies closure.
ACTA is simpler still and as a result can handle some really large battles. It does this by having fairly simple movement rules and a basic combat system that can be altered for flavor by special traits, orders, abilities. Detail is lost to aid speed of play and game scale.
Here's a perfect example...the Battle of Proxima is major battle involving 6 omegas and their fighters versus a bunch of Whitestars and Fighters.
In B5Wars, 4 or 5 players would have spent the best part of a day having their units rolling to protect damaged sides and/or unmasking blocked weapons, seen their ships rendered unable to turn to port or starboard due to thruster damage, chosen to charge their heavy lasers in sustained mode instead of standard mode....etc.
I ACTA 2 players would have spent an afternoon issuing special orders and blasting away.
Who had more fun? That depends on who you are and what you like. Personally, I tend to like the smaller tactical battles, where the handling of each ship is critical, where each point of damage has an effect, large or small and there are many options for handling a ship. Of course, there are those times when its REALLY COOL to line up a couple of major fleets and blast the crap out of each other without it taking all day or involving twenty-seven rule lookups.
--- Rich
The comparison of B5wars to ACTA arms is actually unfair to both game systems since they attempt to simluate different scales. B5Wars is a task force skirmish game with 3 to 5 ships (and their fighters) on a side. ACTA's is a fleet level assault game with 10 to 12 ships (or more) on a side (and their fighters).
As the number of ships goes down, the details reguarding particular units must go up to maintain tactical variation. An extreme example of this is Attack Vector, which is largely a one player to one ship combat system that stresses tactical desicions on a level of where the firing of each individual weapon and its aim point becomes important. The advantage of this system, is that you can play a single ships and still have tons of decision making. You are the Captain of the ship....literally.
Star Fleet Battles increases the number of ships a single player can easily handle and, as a result, forgoes some of the details. Weapon systems are simplified, movement is no longer 3-d as in Attack Vector. I've played Star Fleet Battles since almost day 1 as well....especially loved the original expansion packs that made rule finding almost impossible).
B5Wars is largely in the same category as Star Fleet Battles. It has a somewhat more complicated weapon fire rules set and a more complicated movement system but does not have the shield and energy allocation complication. B5Wars is OK in my opinion in a single ship to single player level but is quite good with a couple of ships per player. It, like SFB, bogs down big time when you add more ships without adding more players (and it still bogs with the extra players, just not as bad).
Fleet Action and Fleet Action 2 by AoG were attempts to rectify the larger fleet engagement problem, with a completely new rule set. There was potential here but both had some massively glaring holes that were never overcome before the companies closure.
ACTA is simpler still and as a result can handle some really large battles. It does this by having fairly simple movement rules and a basic combat system that can be altered for flavor by special traits, orders, abilities. Detail is lost to aid speed of play and game scale.
Here's a perfect example...the Battle of Proxima is major battle involving 6 omegas and their fighters versus a bunch of Whitestars and Fighters.
In B5Wars, 4 or 5 players would have spent the best part of a day having their units rolling to protect damaged sides and/or unmasking blocked weapons, seen their ships rendered unable to turn to port or starboard due to thruster damage, chosen to charge their heavy lasers in sustained mode instead of standard mode....etc.
I ACTA 2 players would have spent an afternoon issuing special orders and blasting away.
Who had more fun? That depends on who you are and what you like. Personally, I tend to like the smaller tactical battles, where the handling of each ship is critical, where each point of damage has an effect, large or small and there are many options for handling a ship. Of course, there are those times when its REALLY COOL to line up a couple of major fleets and blast the crap out of each other without it taking all day or involving twenty-seven rule lookups.
--- Rich
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Played a few games of B5 Wars, in fact I've played more Full Thrust B5 (from the Earthforce Sourcebook)
Also played more of my own B5 conversion of BFG
But ACTA I've played hundreds of games
Also played more of my own B5 conversion of BFG
But ACTA I've played hundreds of games
Haven't played ACTA yet, though it doens't do very well what I want it to do: Crossover Battles.
It will eventually I'm sure, but the big draw to B5 Wars for me was the amazing fan based support, every bit as good as what came from the company itself. And the fan support wasn't limited to licensing issues...
Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Farscape, Andromeda, Battletech, Battlefleet Gothic, Star Fleet Battles, Buck Rogers, Predator, Last Starfighter, Hyperion, Wing Commander, Robotech, Freespace, and many many others are available for play, and quite well done.
Some of the favorite battles I've played -
Hutt Syndicate vs Centauri
Ouster Swarm vs Drazi
Ouster Swarm vs Battletech's House Kurita
Goa'uld vs Federation
Asgard vs Shadows
Romulan vs Deneth
Ferengi vs Dilgar
Narn vs Galactic Empire
Wing Commander vs Old Republic
But then, I'm sure most people just want to fight within the base B5 universe.
Hell, I'm working on conversions for Battlefleet Gothic, Stargate, Farscape and hope to get to Asimov's Foundation and Hamilton's Nights Dawn Trilogy. My goal is to be able to fight anyone you can think of.
It will eventually I'm sure, but the big draw to B5 Wars for me was the amazing fan based support, every bit as good as what came from the company itself. And the fan support wasn't limited to licensing issues...
Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Farscape, Andromeda, Battletech, Battlefleet Gothic, Star Fleet Battles, Buck Rogers, Predator, Last Starfighter, Hyperion, Wing Commander, Robotech, Freespace, and many many others are available for play, and quite well done.
Some of the favorite battles I've played -
Hutt Syndicate vs Centauri
Ouster Swarm vs Drazi
Ouster Swarm vs Battletech's House Kurita
Goa'uld vs Federation
Asgard vs Shadows
Romulan vs Deneth
Ferengi vs Dilgar
Narn vs Galactic Empire
Wing Commander vs Old Republic
But then, I'm sure most people just want to fight within the base B5 universe.
Hell, I'm working on conversions for Battlefleet Gothic, Stargate, Farscape and hope to get to Asimov's Foundation and Hamilton's Nights Dawn Trilogy. My goal is to be able to fight anyone you can think of.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Well looking at the numbers for all three polls, it seems that my point has been reasonably justified..
In as much as it was a fairly cunningly hidden point
Look at the numbers voting and it would seem to indicate that quite alot of people are judging B5Wars and claiming ACTA as the better game WITHOUT EVEN HAVING PLAYED B5WARS (or at least never really given it a chance).
OK so Im not saying the results are tottally skewed as this IS after all an ACTA forum and this is kind of what Id expect but I really would suggest people give B5Wars a go if they get the chance, it aint gonna replace ACTA as your regular game (it just takes too long) but its alot of fun and really nowhere NEAR as complex and scary as it may appear at first glance (and CERTAINLY nowhere near as complex as Starfleet Battles, to which it frankly has as much in common with as it does with Battletech...)
In as much as it was a fairly cunningly hidden point
Look at the numbers voting and it would seem to indicate that quite alot of people are judging B5Wars and claiming ACTA as the better game WITHOUT EVEN HAVING PLAYED B5WARS (or at least never really given it a chance).
OK so Im not saying the results are tottally skewed as this IS after all an ACTA forum and this is kind of what Id expect but I really would suggest people give B5Wars a go if they get the chance, it aint gonna replace ACTA as your regular game (it just takes too long) but its alot of fun and really nowhere NEAR as complex and scary as it may appear at first glance (and CERTAINLY nowhere near as complex as Starfleet Battles, to which it frankly has as much in common with as it does with Battletech...)
Locutus9956 said:Well looking at the numbers for all three polls, it seems that my point has been reasonably justified..
In as much as it was a fairly cunningly hidden point
Look at the numbers voting and it would seem to indicate that quite alot of people are judging B5Wars and claiming ACTA as the better game WITHOUT EVEN HAVING PLAYED B5WARS (or at least never really given it a chance).
OK so Im not saying the results are tottally skewed as this IS after all an ACTA forum and this is kind of what Id expect but I really would suggest people give B5Wars a go if they get the chance, it aint gonna replace ACTA as your regular game (it just takes too long) but its alot of fun and really nowhere NEAR as complex and scary as it may appear at first glance (and CERTAINLY nowhere near as complex as Starfleet Battles, to which it frankly has as much in common with as it does with Battletech...)
I think the only bit complicated-to-the-point-of-irritating in B5W was the thrust assignment, if you wanted to plot a route over the next couple of turns, having a Mentat with you would have helped!!! This though I think made some people condemn the whole system.
fwiw: people I've played both games with have preferred B5W 4-1, but see the fun ACTA in getting a quick game (or two) in. None of them disliked either game.
rbax said:
An important factor in the design philosophy of CTA - none of what you described above was seen in the TV show
Eh... the sustained wasn't mentioned, but in some cases was certainly implied. Some laser beams seemed to stay on target for longer than others. Not a big deal, but a fun aspect of the game I think that adds to tactical consideration.
And the whole burning out of control hulk also showed up with sliced up Omegas, I thought that the damage to thrusters showed that quite well. Wasn't as common as B5 Wars makes it though.
On the other hand, I like ACTA actually taking crew casualties into account, and ACTA's Centauri are definitely a far better interpretation than B5 Wars.
And actually having the license for Crusade means we get the most up to date ships.
Oh, I hear the new direct to DVD releases are going to include a new Minbari cruiser. Hope the ACTA license allows for continuing content.
And the whole burning out of control hulk also showed up with sliced up Omegas, I thought that the damage to thrusters showed that quite well. Wasn't as common as B5 Wars makes it though.
On the other hand, I like ACTA actually taking crew casualties into account, and ACTA's Centauri are definitely a far better interpretation than B5 Wars.
And actually having the license for Crusade means we get the most up to date ships.
Oh, I hear the new direct to DVD releases are going to include a new Minbari cruiser. Hope the ACTA license allows for continuing content.
msprange said:An important factor in the design philosophy of CTA - none of what you described above was seen in the TV show
Your absolutely right in that these actions where never seen to occur in the show. That's the problem with basing things entirly off the TV show.
Using the TV show alone would mean:
1) Combat would only took place at ranges measured in a a few thousands of meters or visual line of site. There is no such thing as long range. Missile even today reach thousands of miles but apparently don't in the future. (Of course, showing on TV a ship firing at and receiving fire from a distant dot of light losses of the drama.
2) Earth would have 3 to 5 major combat ships, the Minbari 1 or 2, the Centauri 2, the Drazi 3, the Narn 2, the Vree 2, the Brakiri 1, and a just a few more for ALL of the other races (I am of course excluding fighters). The actual battles in the Earth Civil War, involved only Whitestars and Omega's. (Obviously the final battle over Earth brought in everyone else).
3) Interceptors stop lasers, especially OMEGA aft heavy lasers, when firing at the fronts Hyperion Heavy Cruisers.
4) The Ancients really wouldn't be fun to play against. I jump in and fire. You hit. No apparent damage. The ancient fires. You die. Do you want to play again?
5) The Whitestar and Minbari Warcruiser are tied into pan-dimensional realities that let them grow and shrink as needed.
6) All hero crewed ships can never be destroyed.
etc.
So using the show as singular argument opens the door to many more arguments. Now isn't that a shock!
--- Rich
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Why....?
The plot demanded it.
LBH
The plot demanded it.
LBH
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