[ACTA:SF] Fleet box ship mixes

[billclo]

Just out of curiosity, and not trying to stir up trouble, I was wondering how the contents of the Fleet boxes are set?

It seems that the ship mixes are a bit out of whack for a balanced fleet.

Example:
The Kzinti.
* Dreadnought
* Heavy Battlecruiser
* Fast Cruiser
* Light Cruiser x4
* Medium Cruiser x4
* War Destroyer x2
* New Heavy Cruiser
* Battlecruiser
* Frigate

Seems kind of odd to have 4 CL. Why not delete 2 CL and add a BC and 2 FF? Or reduce the Medium Cruisers to 3 and add a FF and War Destroyer?

Same with the Gorn, though they aren't as far out of whack:
* Dreadnought
* Battlecruiser
* Destroyer x3
* Light Cruiser x3
* Medium Cruiser
* Heavy Battlecruiser
* Fast Battlecruiser
* Heavy Destroyer x2
* Battle Destroyer x3
How about deleting one CL and adding a Heavy Destroyer or a BD?

I realize that Mongoose isn't going to be able to please everyone, no matter what they do. And definitely I am NOT trying to stir up controversy or trouble. I am just genuinely curious how the ship mixes are determined.

 

[McKinstry]

I thought all the boxes had to match their 2400 series eqivalents?

 

[Nerroth]

Squadron Boxes yes, Fleet Boxes no.

 

[scoutdad]

Bill: This is just an off0the-cuff guess as I truely do not know how hte contents of hte flet boxes were established, but I'd think it was something like this:

A: We need to determine the contents of the fleet boxes so we can work on production molds.
B: Ok, what do you think?
A: I'm not sure, what are people going to use most?
B: Well, the playtesters are using a mix of everything to make sure it all works.
A: Hmm. you know we can't put "everything" in the box. don't you?
B: Yes, I know. But what if we follow the established precident?
A: ACTASF is a brand new game. There is no precedent!
B: No! I menat the established precident from other starship combat games. You know, the ones centered on cruiser-based fleet with some larger and some smaller units.
A: Oh! OK! Lets put 2 or 3 of each cruiser in the box then and fthen round out the space wih larger and smaller ships!
B: Didn't i just say that?

And thus was borne the fleet box concept.

*Please note. This is entirely speculation and has only been posted for the humor inherent in the ficticous conversation.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Given the Gorn situation with ships I would have thought swap a CL for a BC since the Gorn upgraded Cls by adding a second disc for the war.

As the double disc upgrades were done to most of the ships to produce the main war ships I would think there would be less CLs and more BCs.

But then it could be said I am ever so slightly biased :wink:

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

Agree with the captian, seems odd that there is only 1 of the core cruiser (BC) in the Gorn Fleet box, whereas the Fed/Klingon have 2-3. Happily swap out CL for another BC (same individual cost).

Though any ships are better than counters

 

[Captain Jonah]

Lets compare to some of the other fleets.

The Feds:
DN sized ship. One

CA sized ships. Six. Strike cruiser, CA x 2, BC x 2, fast cruiser

CL sized ships. Two. 2 x OCLs

Escorts. Seven. 2 x cutters, 2 x battle frigates, 3 x frigates

Klingons
DN sized ship. One

CA sized ships. Eight. 2 x D7, 2 x D6, 1 x D5W, 2 x C7, 1 x FD7

CL sized ships. Two. 2 x D5

Escorts. Five. 2 E4, 3 x F5

Romulans
DN sized ship. One

CA sized ships. Four. KR, KE, Firehawk, fast Hawk

CL sized ships. Three. 2 x WE, 1 x Sparrowhawk

Escorts. Eight. skyhawk, 3 x Snipe, 3 x battlehawk, K5FR

Gorn
DN sized ship. One

CA sized ships. Four. BC, CM, BCH, Fast Cruiser

CL sized ships. Five. 3 x CL, 2 x HDD

Escorts. six. 3 x DD, 3 x BDD

The Plasma races seem to be getting the smelly end of the stick in terms of Heavy cruisers, four each to the Federations 6 and the Klingons 8. The Kzinti also come in with 4 CA types since the CMs are the same size as the CLs.

The Feds have 2 CLs, the Klingons 2 CLs, the Gorn 5 CLs, the Romulans Three CLs and the Kzinti a huge 8 CLs. The Romulans have 8 escorts, the Feds 7, the Gorn 6.

The Klingons and to a lesser degree the Federation are clearly winning in the field a fleet of bigger ships league here.

Clearly Biased in favour of someone’s two favourite races :roll: :wink:

 

[Ben2]

For the Gorn simply swapping a CL for a BC seems to resolve the issue.

Six DD/BDDs is fine with me, and that number of escorts is pretty useful for a fleet. 3 CLs is certainly one too many.

Going back over the Gorn though, would anyone take the DD over the BDD? The BDD is 5 points more and gains a phaser and 6 shields.

 

[Captain Jonah]

The thing with the Gorn is that aside from special use ships all the CLs were converted to BCs as fast as possible and all the DDs to BDDs.

Since the refits and so on reflect late war ships there would be few CLs or DDs around that were not scouts or escorts. Everything else was converted to the two disk design for greater firepower and survival in the war.

The Stegs were more common as CLs since they were built as such using the CL sized shipyards that were no longer turning out CLs.

The Gorn fleet box is half pre war CL/DD with a token BC and half mid/late war BDD/HDD with a CM.

As you say no one is going to use DDs unless they are desperate for 5 points. I would be more than happy with swapping one DD for a BDD, one CL for a BC and one CL for a HDD leaving two DDs and a CL for variants and better reflecting the actual war fleets the Gorn used. Plus it means less waste buying ships that you hate to have to use.

 

[Rambler]

Captian Jonah, two small points.

1) The Fed Strike Cruiser is a Light Cruiser. A REALLY good one but it is still was a competting design for the NCL making it a War Cruiser/Light Cruiser. (And yes there are proposal for making a CSA Heavy Cruiser similar to the NCA conversion.)

2) The Klingon never built a true Light Cruiser (The D5 was a War Cruiser Design and not intended to serve in a peacetime enviroment) instead they kept building D6 to server as Ligh Cruiser for the Fleet so even though you thing it is a Hevay Cruiser to the Klingons it was a Light Cruiser.

With that in mind the Feds acually only have 5 Heavy Cruisers and 3 Light Cruisers where as the Klingons have 6 Heavy Cruisers and 4 Light Cruisers. Yeah they still are skewwed more toward the Heavy side but not quite as baddly as you thought.