ACTA - I want, I hate, lets adjust

[AdrianH]

Besides, neither of those has many races. "Fireball XL-5", on the other hand, had a new race practically every week, and was set in space.

The "Lensmen" series might also be a possibility. We know ACTA 3 involves a lot of boarding; in the "Lensmen" series, this involved boarders armed with blasters and battleaxes. We also know ACTA 3 makes more use of shields than B5:ACTA; shields in the "Lensmen" universe changed colour as they went down, which is easy if you're using pre-printed colour ship data sheets. If ACTA 3 isn't "Lensmen", it should be.

 

[Da Boss]

Matthew mentioned that movement is going to be unchanged. So I guess there's no chance of incorporating a 3-Dimensional aspect? That's the one thing that's kept me from ever really getting in to space combat games. 2-D space combat makes no sense to me.

Even something as simple as "elevation dice" and the ability to roll would be phenomenal.

Ability to Roll - I seem to recall this was used in a few older games - BattleSpace and IIRC its in Firestorm Armada.

Elevation - nearest I have played is the Aeronautica Imperialis game from Forge World which has some good rules/mechanisms for 3D combat - a good game but don't recommend using the ammo rolls..............

 

[Mean Mutton]

Matthew mentioned that movement is going to be unchanged. So I guess there's no chance of incorporating a 3-Dimensional aspect? That's the one thing that's kept me from ever really getting in to space combat games. 2-D space combat makes no sense to me.

Even something as simple as "elevation dice" and the ability to roll would be phenomenal.

My view, though, has always been -- does this really add anything to the game to account for the added complexity? Elevation adds a lot of complexity but does it really increase the fun?

 

[Burger]

My view, though, has always been -- does this really add anything to the game to account for the added complexity? Elevation adds a lot of complexity but does it really increase the fun?

Yep totally agree with this. The 2D table is an abstraction of a 3D battle, it's not meant to literally be everything happening on one 2-dimensional plane.

As for rolling... well if you allow that then you're allowing a 180 degree turn along the ship's Z axis. Surely some clever bod (ie. me) is going to come along and say, well I want the ability to roll on the X and Y axes as well. So by that logic you can just turn your ship to any facing you like in an instant. It completely changes the movement system of CTA.

 

[Digger]

Okay - How about the Honor Harrington Universe - That has some good ships in - Seem to remember someone did an ACTA mod for it as well?

 

[Da Boss]

Matthew mentioned that movement is going to be unchanged. So I guess there's no chance of incorporating a 3-Dimensional aspect? That's the one thing that's kept me from ever really getting in to space combat games. 2-D space combat makes no sense to me.

Even something as simple as "elevation dice" and the ability to roll would be phenomenal.

My view, though, has always been -- does this really add anything to the game to account for the added complexity? Elevation adds a lot of complexity but does it really increase the fun?

It did in the couple of games of Aeronautica Imperialis I have played - partly due to the feeling of diving and climbing whcih was helped by the movement card system. Also partly beacuse at least one aircraft flew into the ground when trying too hard to escape an enemy. flying through a city was also cool..................

 

[AdrianH]

My view, though, has always been -- does this really add anything to the game to account for the added complexity? Elevation adds a lot of complexity but does it really increase the fun?

Yep totally agree with this. The 2D table is an abstraction of a 3D battle, it's not meant to literally be everything happening on one 2-dimensional plane.

Besides, for it to be realistic 3D space movement, all three dimensions would need to be equal, meaning the ship would need to be able to move as far up as it can move along. Good luck achieving that on a tabletop. By contrast, air combat (especially early air combat) involves relatively little up/down movement, which is why Wings of War gets away with representing height by pegs on the miniatures' bases. Otherwise movement will be an abstraction, so keep it simple.

As for rolling... well if you allow that then you're allowing a 180 degree turn along the ship's Z axis. Surely some clever bod (ie. me) is going to come along and say, well I want the ability to roll on the X and Y axes as well. So by that logic you can just turn your ship to any facing you like in an instant. It completely changes the movement system of CTA.

I'm not sure which of the three axes of ship movement are X, Y and Z, but again comparing to aircraft, there are pitch, yaw and roll. Pitch is climb/dive, yaw is left/right turns, roll is turning upside down without changing heading. Rolling therefore adds nothing much to the game, but flip your model upside down if it makes you happy. A 180 degree pitch is a half loop and is probably what a White Star does when it declares High Energy Turn. Less manoeuvrable ships aren't going to get a 180 degree pitch out of one move; if 3D movement were represented properly, they'd get at most the same amount of pitch as they get yaw at the moment.

 

[Burger]

Rolling therefore adds nothing much to the game, but flip your model upside down if it makes you happy.

I think the idea is for the Sag powergamers, to do a roll and get to fire slow-loading missiles every turn. And for when an arc is down, you can roll and use the other one.

A 180 degree pitch is a half loop and is probably what a White Star does when it declares High Energy Turn. Less manoeuvrable ships aren't going to get a 180 degree pitch out of one move; if 3D movement were represented properly, they'd get at most the same amount of pitch as they get yaw at the moment.

Yeah, and that would cause big problems, a ship pointing upwards! How do you measure if targets are in its arcs or not? You'd also have to limit the roll to the same angles, so your ship would end up on its side.

It's all just a big mess IMO. Forget 3D. Tis a silly idea in a space game.

 

[H]

you would also then need upper fore, lower fore and so for weapon placements

 

[l33tpenguin]

The simplicity of ACtA's movement system really doesn't allow for 3d movement. And its honestly something I don't want. Not even the whole 'roll' thing. I understand why it would be wanted, I don't want it. If I want big epic space battles with explosions in three dimensional space, I load up Homeworld. For a nice easy and fun table top play, I'll do ACtA. And rolling REALLY does allow for some ships to exploit it.

 

[sidewinder]

Well, from Matts comment that the ships in this game have small crews it cant be star wars and probably isnt star trek. Trek was the only thing i was hoping for cause I like it and would have liked to see the next generation stuff in a game. So like others I will probably buy the rules and use what I like in the current B5 game or do a conversion. But I probably wont be buying models.

It likely wouldn't have been Star Trek anyway... Wizkids has a license for multiple Star Trek games including a semi/non collectible starship combat game that they announced at Gen Con Indy this year.

I thought wizkids went out of business? I would have much rather seen a star trek game done with the ACTA system then anything wizkids would put out. And models too for that matter.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Topps shut Wizkids down, and it was then purchased by the National Entertainment Collectibles Association and opened up again. The only thing they're really selling at the moment that I can tell are various permutations of Heroclix. Many of the Mechwarrior DA/AOD models looked pretty good, especially when they started using computer aided sculpting. The models they showed off at Gencon were done the same way, and from what I could tell, looked pretty good. I could care less about the rules, But I'd like to pick up some and use them with the ACTA Trek ruleset that floating around.

http://thehopelessgamer.blogspot.com/2010/09/gencon-interview-wizkids-talks-star.html

 

[Greg Smith]

Wizkids do have Star Trek: http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2010/06/08/announcing-star-trek-based-games-from-wizkids/

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

Well, from Matts comment that the ships in this game have small crews it cant be star wars and probably isnt star trek. Trek was the only thing i was hoping for cause I like it and would have liked to see the next generation stuff in a game. So like others I will probably buy the rules and use what I like in the current B5 game or do a conversion. But I probably wont be buying models.

It likely wouldn't have been Star Trek anyway... Wizkids has a license for multiple Star Trek games including a semi/non collectible starship combat game that they announced at Gen Con Indy this year.

I thought wizkids went out of business? I would have much rather seen a star trek game done with the ACTA system then anything wizkids would put out. And models too for that matter.

I'm with you on that one Sidewinder. Wizkids models tend to be rather breakable and poorly painted, not to mention the random selection you get when you buy from them. Also I can't imagine them doing a starship based game, it isn't really their style from what I've seen. Now Star Trek; especially TNG onwards, produced with the new ACTA rules I'd find the money to get, and I know a fair few other people who would be looking for fleets as well (frequently multiple fleets). Based on all the other suggestions offered up I can't really imagine any of them I'd be willing to seperate with any sizeable chunk of change for.

 

[Mean Mutton]

It likely wouldn't have been Star Trek anyway... Wizkids has a license for multiple Star Trek games including a semi/non collectible starship combat game that they announced at Gen Con Indy this year.

I thought wizkids went out of business? I would have much rather seen a star trek game done with the ACTA system then anything wizkids would put out. And models too for that matter.

I'm with you on that one Sidewinder. Wizkids models tend to be rather breakable and poorly painted, not to mention the random selection you get when you buy from them. Also I can't imagine them doing a starship based game, it isn't really their style from what I've seen. Now Star Trek; especially TNG onwards, produced with the new ACTA rules I'd find the money to get, and I know a fair few other people who would be looking for fleets as well (frequently multiple fleets). Based on all the other suggestions offered up I can't really imagine any of them I'd be willing to seperate with any sizeable chunk of change for.

If we're dreaming about Mongoose taking over a WizKid product -- why not Aerotech? I always loved Mechwarrior, but the Aerotech rules were... clunky. ACTA rules for the Aerotech game world would have been sweet.

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

Yes but from the looks of it the licence refers primarily; if not exclusively, to the new itteration of the Star Trek franchise (the new Star Trek movie). It would also probably be based on individuals not on starships. So the licence they have may well only cover the new 're-birth' and thereby technically a different Star Trek to all previous ones (having fallen into an alternate timeline) and not the earlier series or the starships.

But yes, a Mechwarrior game with some good rules and decent models (in price and quality) would be very interesting; and fun.

 

[mendicantmonkey]

Howdy. I was reading your thread and wanted to point out some things from the link http://thehopelessgamer.blogspot.com/2010/09/gencon-interview-wizkids-talks-star.html that contradict some of the other posters' speculations:

The Star Trek games are not compatible with Heroclix or other 'clix games. They use dials, but that's where the similarities end.
Wizkids has a license to all of the Star Trek properties from the reboot movie line to classic TV and movies. They also have the expanded universe content if they want to use it.
Wizkids currently has no plans for pure character vs. character combat game. No Kirk vs. Picard (but you could see a match up of the Enterprise vs. the Enterprise-D!).

I think that means Trek is locked up by Wizkids.

As long as everybody's still guessing, though, would Farscape make a good setting? I'm pretty sure it doesn't match the details revealed so far, though.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Mass Effect would be a cool setting to see done. I remember seeing a lot of really good looking ships in the cut scenes as I saved the galaxy from extinction.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Ack. Wasn't trying to derail the thread with stuff about Wizkids.

Back OT, I wonder what size the ships will be for the new license. Are they going to be closer to ACTA scale, or FA scale? And how many are we getting in a fleet box roughly? I know it's been stated that there's less auxiliary craft involved.

Maybe that's a hint as to the setting as well, that we won't have as much of a focus on fighters.

 

[mendicantmonkey]

I hear you. Trek has been done to death, anyway.

Well, it's been said that:

• * There are relatively small crews
  * Some of the ships are very large

Also, we can infer that it's not Star Trek, Star Wars or Babylon 5.

What settings have potentially large ships and typically small crews?

As for myself, I never played the previous ACTA games. I picked up Victory at Sea and Age of Dreadnaughts a while back and I'm gearing up to get some of my buddies to play this winter.

I really like the streamlined nature of the VaS rule so I'm curious to see how the new ACTA turns out. My own selfish ideal would be a setting that also lends itself to a matching 1/300 or 1/285 micro-armour game that's similarly affordable and streamlined. Who else wants to play a starship campaign with planetary assaults without breaking the bank?

I like MGP's stated nature as a gaming company that sells miniatures as an opposite of GW's nature. I loved to play Epic back when you could build a playable army with $40 worth of plastic and a little added metal. I like models, but for me they should be just nice pieces for playing a good game.