ACTA: Deploying a Poseidon

[Mean Mutton]

We're in a campaign and one of the players has a Poseidon. In the campaign itself, he's spent the six Patrol points to upgrade the 24 Aurora Starfuries to Firebolt Starfuries.

When a scenario comes up, what does it cost to deploy this ship in the scenario? Does it cost just one War point or does it still cost one War point plus the six Patrol points for the upgrade?

Thank you.

 

[Greg Smith]

1w plus the 6 patrol. You pay to upgrade it, you also have to include the cost in a battle.

 

[Mean Mutton]

1w plus the 6 patrol. You pay to upgrade it, you also have to include the cost in a battle.

Thank you!

 

[basaint]

Wouldn't the cost be just the 'War' going forward since it's a campaign and its been paid for already?
Seems odd to keep paying for something that's already been upgraded...unless all the fighters were destroyed and then I can see paying to upgrade again.

 

[Mean Mutton]

Wouldn't the cost be just the 'War' going forward since it's a campaign and its been paid for already?
Seems odd to keep paying for something that's already been upgraded...unless all the fighters were destroyed and then I can see paying to upgrade again.

There is a difference between paying for a purchase in the campaign and allocating a ship to your fleet for the scenario.

In campaigns, you purchase ships all the time to include them in your fleet roster. You're not "paying for them" when you allocate them to your fleet for a scenario. You're just allocating them.

 

[LimeyDragon]

1w plus the 6 patrol. You pay to upgrade it, you also have to include the cost in a battle.

Yep, thats the way I see it..

 

[basaint]

I would think since you asked about this Mutton, you'd agree with me

My rationale is if u buy something for your fleet and you're in a campaign, it's there until its gone. Its not like you're playing random scenarios and new ships all the time.

I thought that's the whole point of the campaign. Its a representation of a fleet that goes from A-Z in the string of scenarios and your wins/losses/upgrades carry over, like a real evolving fleet.

I think if we would've kept them since we're keeping track via Fleet rosters.

 

[Mean Mutton]

I would think since you asked about this Mutton, you'd agree with me

My rationale is if u buy something for your fleet and you're in a campaign, it's there until its gone. Its not like you're playing random scenarios and new ships all the time.

I thought that's the whole point of the campaign. Its a representation of a fleet that goes from A-Z in the string of scenarios and your wins/losses/upgrades carry over, like a real evolving fleet.

I think if we would've kept them since we're keeping track via Fleet rosters.

It came up on our game on Monday and caused a fair bit of consternation. We eventually settled on including the cost but I wanted to check with the community. Honestly, when you upgrade the fighters you're dramatically increasing the potency of the carrier. The difference between the fighters is significant.

 

[Burger]

In campaigns, you purchase ships all the time to include them in your fleet roster. You're not "paying for them" when you allocate them to your fleet for a scenario. You're just allocating them.

Yes, spot on. Your RR are your "money" for campaigns. When you buy a Poseidon with upgraded fighters you only "pay" for it with RR once.

Sending ships out to battle does not cost RR, the number of FAPs is simply the size of fleet you are allowed to bring to the fight. A Poseidon with standard fighters costs 1W, a Poseidon with upgraded fighters costs 1W+6P.

 

[Anbar]

I thought you could only have a maximum of 4 Firebolts anyway?

 

[Burger]

I thought you could only have a maximum of 4 Firebolts anyway?

I take it you got that from this:
Firebolts may be purchased separately, or may replace up to four other Starfuries as a single Patrol choice.
4 Firebolts per patrol choice. You can spend multiple patrol choices to get more than 4 in one Poseidon.

 

[Anbar]

yeah, i read it as being a definitive number, not a per-patrol choice.

happy to see you can take more than 4 as it seeemed a bit odd. 8)

 

[Anbar]

Actually, I take that back... I dont understand either part of the thread tbh....

Firebolts you get 2 per Wing.
Star Fury's you get 4 per Wing.

So how come you can suddenly swap 4 Furys for 4 Firebolts? That is twice the power

Surely you should be swapping 4 furys for 2 Firebolts??


And, in the campaign, the Poseidon, 'upgraded' using RR to upgrade the Furys to Firebolts, now has 12 Firebolts at the same initial cost (1 war point) for the Carrier + fighters.

If you then add a further 12 Firebolts, then you are adding another 6 Wings (each of 2 firebolts) and need to factor in the extra cost during a scenario. With the "straight upgrade" to 12 Firebolts it is still a 1 War point vessel.

 

[Democratus]

The Fleet Allocation Point system is there to insure a fair fight between two fleets.

When you sit down at the table for a scenario, you use the FAP system to determine what can fit in each player's fleet.

It doesn't matter what you purchased with RR during the campaign turn - the fight still needs to be "balanced". A Poseidon with Aurora flights is 1 War point in a force. If you upgrade the fighters, then you are putting more than 1 War point on the table.

It's what you put on the table that matters in a scenario.

 

[Burger]

Surely you should be swapping 4 furys for 2 Firebolts??

No, you can upgrade 4 starfuries to firebolts for a patrol point. When buying a wing of fighters, you are buying from nothing so you only get 2.

If 4 furies are worth a patrol point and upgrading 4 to firebolts costs another then you've spent 2 patrol in total - same as buying 2 wings of firebolts

I think the same reasoning applies to the rest of your post too.

 

[Anbar]

Aha..OK, so Upgrades really are independent.

Cheers for that Burger


hmm, i dont understand this wording then:

Firebolts may be purchased separately, or may replace up to four other Starfuries as a single Patrol choice.

how does that then fitinto things as you are talking about a direct swap by ship, not by wing

 

[Burger]

You can buy firebolts separately (as an independent wing, not part of a Poseidon or other carrier's complement), at a cost of 2 per patrol choice.

Or you can upgrade starfuries inside of a carrier to firebolts, at a cost of 4 for 1 patrol choice.

 

[Anbar]

but they're both patrol choices anyway... why do you suddenly get 4 instead of 2?

 

[Democratus]

but they're both patrol choices anyway... why do you suddenly get 4 instead of 2?

Because you are loosing 4 Auroras in the "swap" deal. You used to have 4 Aurora flights, now you have 4 Firebolts.

When purchasing, you used to have nothing, now you have 2 Firebolts.

 

[Anbar]

but they're both patrol choices anyway... why do you suddenly get 4 instead of 2?

Because you are loosing 4 Auroras in the "swap" deal. You used to have 4 Aurora flights, now you have 4 Firebolts.

When purchasing, you used to have nothing, now you have 2 Firebolts.

I understand the theory, its the english that has me confused......it just doenst make much sense to me.


Firebolts may be purchased separately, or may replace up to four other Starfuries as a single Patrol choice.

Why does it say "up to four other starfruies"?

And why not just say "You can upgrade 4 Starfuries to 4 Firebolts by spending an additional single 1 Patrol point"

Or is that saying that you cannot just swap 4 star furies for 2 firebolts.

(Sorry, but the enlgish is thoroughly ambiguous to me)