Court Jester
Mongoose
Nice,
I'd like to hear how these play out...
I'd like to hear how these play out...
ACTA: Battlestar Galactica - Some input please...
- Thread starter Court Jester
- Start date
Rabidchild
Mongoose
A couple questions from a game that a friend and I played:
What are considered arcs for purposes of losing an arc or only being able to use one arc? We guessed that each different listing was it's own arc, so P/S/F is one arc and P/S/A is another, just as T counts as an arc.
Can we have a ruling on crew criticals for the Cylons?
Since shooting at the nuke requires a six to hit, rather than having hull 6, do AP weapons help? We guessed no, to keep it interesting.
Why would anyone take ViperII's over ViperVII's?
Quick battle report:
1 Acropolis Battlestar: 3 ECM raptors, 2 gunship raptors, 1 scout raptor.
1 Cylon Basestar
The first few turns saw the vipers wiping out most raiders and the Battlestar finishing the rest as that was all it could range.
Turns three and four saw the vipers being wiped out, without being recovered. The battlestar kept up a good pounding on the basestar. (we had both forgotten about nukes all this time)
Turns five and six saw the battlestar take a bridge hit right after I remembered my nukes, so I never was able to fire them. All my supporting craft were destroyed and I was being nibbled to death by raiders. As I had so conveniently reminded my opponent about nukes he fired his with the base star. I unloaded my broadside into the nuke and rolled 12 sixes, shooting it down completely.
Turns seven and eight. Base star crippled and then destroyed. A series of 3 criticals of -2 speed ensured it could never repair enough to escape the circling battlestar's broadsides. The turn after the basestar was crippled, it crippled the battlestar in turn and we guessed it would have taken only one or two turns after the base star was destroyed for the raiders to destroy the battlestar.
Conclusions:
Fire control is an excellent system. It gives options without being overpowering.
This game is a slugging match! We were rolling 30+ dice fairly often.
It reminded both of us of the show, so good job in that department.
Good job on balance, it was an even fight.
What are considered arcs for purposes of losing an arc or only being able to use one arc? We guessed that each different listing was it's own arc, so P/S/F is one arc and P/S/A is another, just as T counts as an arc.
Can we have a ruling on crew criticals for the Cylons?
Since shooting at the nuke requires a six to hit, rather than having hull 6, do AP weapons help? We guessed no, to keep it interesting.
Why would anyone take ViperII's over ViperVII's?
Quick battle report:
1 Acropolis Battlestar: 3 ECM raptors, 2 gunship raptors, 1 scout raptor.
1 Cylon Basestar
The first few turns saw the vipers wiping out most raiders and the Battlestar finishing the rest as that was all it could range.
Turns three and four saw the vipers being wiped out, without being recovered. The battlestar kept up a good pounding on the basestar. (we had both forgotten about nukes all this time)
Turns five and six saw the battlestar take a bridge hit right after I remembered my nukes, so I never was able to fire them. All my supporting craft were destroyed and I was being nibbled to death by raiders. As I had so conveniently reminded my opponent about nukes he fired his with the base star. I unloaded my broadside into the nuke and rolled 12 sixes, shooting it down completely.
Turns seven and eight. Base star crippled and then destroyed. A series of 3 criticals of -2 speed ensured it could never repair enough to escape the circling battlestar's broadsides. The turn after the basestar was crippled, it crippled the battlestar in turn and we guessed it would have taken only one or two turns after the base star was destroyed for the raiders to destroy the battlestar.
Conclusions:
Fire control is an excellent system. It gives options without being overpowering.
This game is a slugging match! We were rolling 30+ dice fairly often.
It reminded both of us of the show, so good job in that department.
Good job on balance, it was an even fight.
Court Jester
Mongoose
Rabidchild said:
That seems entirely reasonable, yes you played it right.
Rabidchild said:
As it stands you do not re-roll a 5 on the crit location roll. However I am going to change this in the next update.
Rabidchild said:
Indeed, AP and SAP have no effect on hitting tiny missles in space...
Rabidchild said:
Becaus if you are using the unique ship Galactica you will have no choice... I only included the Mk II for completeness, in some of the scenarios I am working on the MkII's will be immune to the Cylon Virus.
Rabidchild said:
Its not just me this happens to then...
Rabidchild said:
That is certainly encouraging to know, thank you very much for the feedback.
Commador Q
Mongoose
perhaps the vipers could have the same sort of balance as T-bolts and arura starfurys where they each prioritise different aspects.
something likr the MK 2 has a better dodge and a higher hull, but the mk 7 has a better dogfight and more firepower. Basicly the mk 2 is built more sturdily because they were developed during the first cylon war, where it was more practicle to build a tough ship than one with a fly by wire system, whereas the mk7 was built to be a more advanced fighter, and could be more manuverable because of it's advanced computers.
so usually the MK 7's are preferable, but some MK2s might still be seen depending on the comander's prefence, and they aren't as decidedly inferior.
something likr the MK 2 has a better dodge and a higher hull, but the mk 7 has a better dogfight and more firepower. Basicly the mk 2 is built more sturdily because they were developed during the first cylon war, where it was more practicle to build a tough ship than one with a fly by wire system, whereas the mk7 was built to be a more advanced fighter, and could be more manuverable because of it's advanced computers.
so usually the MK 7's are preferable, but some MK2s might still be seen depending on the comander's prefence, and they aren't as decidedly inferior.
Court Jester
Mongoose
I did initially think that... That vary different aspects.
Initially I gave the older Vipers larger missle racks or somthing like that but the fact is that the Mk II are outclassed by the MkVII's completely... that is until whole squadrons of MkVII are destroyed by the Cylon Virus.
So I made the mark VII better, but not by huge ammounts.
I will say yes, they can re-direct fire on Nukes.
I'll see what I can do...
Initially I gave the older Vipers larger missle racks or somthing like that but the fact is that the Mk II are outclassed by the MkVII's completely... that is until whole squadrons of MkVII are destroyed by the Cylon Virus.
So I made the mark VII better, but not by huge ammounts.
I will say yes, they can re-direct fire on Nukes.
I'll see what I can do...
Court Jester
Mongoose
I have uploaded the 8th Draft that you can download from the link in my signiature.
The ships now all have very simple points values assigned based on this scale of effectiveness...
The ships now all have very simple points values assigned based on this scale of effectiveness...
- Acropolis or Mercury will be able to defeat a single basestar
- Acropolis will hold it own against 2 Basestars but it will be a tough fight that it may well have to retreat from.
- Mercury will be able to defeat 2 Basestars
- Acropolis will be outmatched by 3 Basestars
- Mercury will hold it own against 3 Basestars but it will be a tough fight that it may well have to retreat from.
- Mercury or Acropolis will be outmatched by 4 or more Basestars
The Legend
Mongoose
Court Jester said:
1st Battle (using the 8th Draft of the rules.)
Setup
One Colonial Battlestar vs One Cylon Basestar. The engagement was fought in open space so no celestial phenomena present. Cylons lost setup roll and were forced to deploy 1st, along the backline of the board edge. The lone Battlestar deployed directly opposite the Cylons and as far into the deployment zone as possible. The Colonial Fleet lost the Initiative.
Turn 1
Being forced to move 1st the Battlestar moved straight towards the looming Basestar the truned to Port to bring her broadsides to bear on any incoming waves or Nuclear Ordinance (Big mistake on my part). Cylon forces move their Basestar directly away from the approaching Battlestar and deploy a Nuclear strike and more Raiders.
The only firing done this turn is from the Nuclear strike and the Battlestars gun batteries which firing on salvo took out the strike with no damage to the Battlestar.
Turn 2
Initiative is won by the Colonies this time and the Battlestar begins to come about to chase the fleeing Basestar.
The firing done this turn is between the Battlestar and the Cylon waves as the Basestar elects to fire a standard salvo punching a few holes in the Battlestar but no real damage is done. Meanwhile the Gun Batteries from the Colonial warship pound two Cylon fighter waves into nothing but debris.
Turn 3
Once again the Colonials win the initiative and turn still towards the yet again retreating Basestar. Once again the cylons elect not to launch Nukes.
Firing is rather flat this turn as there are no raiders in range and the Basestar is out of range of all but the Battlestars missiles. The missile strikes from both are largely ineffectual due to the Point defences on both craft. Though a stray missile does damage the drives on the Battlestar reducing its speed by 12% (1", this becomes crutial later in the battle).
Turn 4
The Cylons manage to wrestle the initiative from the Colonial Fleet and continue their retreat along the board edge launching another Nuclear Salvo. The advancing Battlestar attempts to bring the full frontal batteries to bear on the as yet unwounded Basestar, but fails to do so (by a quarter of an inch).
The Nuclear Salvo is averted by a combined effort of the Battlestars Batteries and a Raptor Gunships missiles (desperate measures). Fire from the screening Cylon fighters knock out 3 out of four flights of Vipers (Because of the initiative the Vipers formed a screen in front of the Battlestar but the Cylon waves decided to stand off and fire from a distance instead of Dogfighting).
Turn 5
Colonials win the Initiative but this makes no Difference as the loss of the Vipers has left the Battlestar largely defenceless against the Cylon waves. Both Warships continue their courses and once again the Basestar launches a Nuclear Salvo.
The Cylon waves largely continue to mop up the Colonial Auxilliary craft while the Basestar engages the Battlestar directly. Electing to allow the Point defences to deal with the nukes and only offering a single battery to the defence the mighty Colonial Warship puts most of it's weapons into the Basestar to try and damage the Cylon ship. Damage is fairly heavy but this allows the few unengaged Heavy Raiders and waves to assist the Nukes in heavily wounding the Battlestar. Point defences are once again knocked out.
Turn 6
The final death throes of the Battlestar are very short as the Cylon Basestar unloads another Nuke barrage into her. The damage done finishes the fight and once again the cylons have taken down vital Colonial defences.
Conclusions
Barring the stupid mistake of bearing port in the 1st turn and failing to get my Vipers engaged in Dogfights I'm very happy with the feel of the game and the ships. They both play and feel like the ships should, based on what we've seem from the series. Battlestars can weather some amazing damage but it does all mount up and the only way to hurt a Basestar seems to be to close on it, quickly (I do believe this has been mentioned before though so I apologise if I'm repeating this.
Questions
A few notes from the battle.
Overlapping counters. There were a few moments, turn 4 and 5 particularly when it became imposible for the Battlestar to move because of the positioning of the Cylon Raider Waves. We decided to allow the Battlestar to "nudge" the Waves aside but is this the right or wrong thing to do?
ECM Raptors. Does locking a Raptor in a Dogfight negate it's ability to use the ECM ability. My opponant (cordas) reckons yes but I seem to remember the Raptor having two crew. Mind you in the Pilot you do see both Sharon and Helo working together to evade the pursuing Cylons.
There are a few more but as I'm writing this 8 hours after playing the game I forgot them. If I remember I'll repost them. (We did write this up last night but the connection crached as I was reaching the end). DOH!!!! :x
Locutus9956
Mongoose
As much as I like this Mod and what your doing with it the problem for me still comes down to ACTA's incredibly quick to die fighter rules. The captial ships are very well done though now I must say
I'm working on my own version for Full thrust by the way if anyone's interested (you will of course need to know the rules to full thrust but you can download them for free in PDF from Ground Zero Games)
Im still tweaking the Cylons to try and get them just right but if anyones interested drop me a pm and Ill email you them when theyre ready
At the moment Ive done the two Battlestars, vipers, raiders, and Basestars. Not done rules for raptors and heavy raiders yet (will do them once Ive got the Cylons feeling right, the Battlestars are pretty much how I want them but the Cylons in their current version are untested so need to try them out).
ps. If you DO want to try it out bear in mind that its meant for full thrust 2.5 (ie using all the rules updates in fleet books 1 and 2, more thrust etc) and the game uses cinematic movement. Vector movement, as good as the system is just wouldnt work with BSG (I know fighters do cool flips etc on the show but the captital ships never pivot around and fly backwards etc)
I'm working on my own version for Full thrust by the way if anyone's interested (you will of course need to know the rules to full thrust but you can download them for free in PDF from Ground Zero Games)
Im still tweaking the Cylons to try and get them just right but if anyones interested drop me a pm and Ill email you them when theyre ready
At the moment Ive done the two Battlestars, vipers, raiders, and Basestars. Not done rules for raptors and heavy raiders yet (will do them once Ive got the Cylons feeling right, the Battlestars are pretty much how I want them but the Cylons in their current version are untested so need to try them out
).ps. If you DO want to try it out bear in mind that its meant for full thrust 2.5 (ie using all the rules updates in fleet books 1 and 2, more thrust etc) and the game uses cinematic movement. Vector movement, as good as the system is just wouldnt work with BSG (I know fighters do cool flips etc on the show but the captital ships never pivot around and fly backwards etc)
Court Jester
Mongoose
The Basestar can only use the Nuke special order once per game... other than that it is firing normal missles.
If the ECM starts the turn in a dogfight then it will not be able to use its ability. If it starts the turn free it may use it.
We allow the ships to move over fighter tokens. We don't even move them out of the way. The fighters are just assumed to be swarming over the ship.
If the ECM starts the turn in a dogfight then it will not be able to use its ability. If it starts the turn free it may use it.
We allow the ships to move over fighter tokens. We don't even move them out of the way. The fighters are just assumed to be swarming over the ship.
Well finally got the game I wanted and really enjoyed it. I like the game feels, it seems to flow very naturaly.
It was a fairly convincing win for the Cylons, but I think was more down to the Battlestar turning to port in the 1st turn and allowing my basestar to slide away to its aft, it wasn't until turn 5 that it was able to bring its guns against me. I was sure that you only had one salvo of nukes but we couldn't find where it said it, so played with unlimited (although the battlestar never fired any).
One fairly major thing that needs addressing is when Nukes are launched, as its possible for the amount of firepower to be reduced by criticals before the ship that fires the nukes has had its turn to shoot. What we decided was to consider the nukes already launched so they wouldn't be affected.
Got a suggestion about the launching of auxilary craft, in CTA they are unable to do anything until the next turn maybe this should be amended to allow ships to act normally on launching (with the exception of movement obviously).
Also would it be possible to buy extra nuke salvos for the cylons, maybe at 1 point per salvo and a max or X number of extra salvos per size of the game.
Looking forward to my next game Just need to get some better printouts.
It was a fairly convincing win for the Cylons, but I think was more down to the Battlestar turning to port in the 1st turn and allowing my basestar to slide away to its aft, it wasn't until turn 5 that it was able to bring its guns against me. I was sure that you only had one salvo of nukes but we couldn't find where it said it, so played with unlimited (although the battlestar never fired any).
One fairly major thing that needs addressing is when Nukes are launched, as its possible for the amount of firepower to be reduced by criticals before the ship that fires the nukes has had its turn to shoot. What we decided was to consider the nukes already launched so they wouldn't be affected.
Got a suggestion about the launching of auxilary craft, in CTA they are unable to do anything until the next turn maybe this should be amended to allow ships to act normally on launching (with the exception of movement obviously).
Also would it be possible to buy extra nuke salvos for the cylons, maybe at 1 point per salvo and a max or X number of extra salvos per size of the game.
Looking forward to my next game
Just need to get some better printouts.Court Jester
Mongoose
I am quite against Basestars using Nukes more than once. They never use them repreatedly in the show and only in intitial barages or ambushes.
Regarding the rules issue with reduced AD... the Salvo template is placed when the special order is given and its damage is noted then. So any criticals that reduce AD in the combat phase will not effect the salvo.
I am concidering raising the Vipers Dodge to 2+...
I'll take a look at the Aux Craft but I'd like to keep the amount of minor changes to a minimum really.
Regarding the rules issue with reduced AD... the Salvo template is placed when the special order is given and its damage is noted then. So any criticals that reduce AD in the combat phase will not effect the salvo.
I am concidering raising the Vipers Dodge to 2+...
I'll take a look at the Aux Craft but I'd like to keep the amount of minor changes to a minimum really.
The Legend
Mongoose
Locutus9956 said:As much as I like this Mod and what your doing with it the problem for me still comes down to ACTA's incredibly quick to die fighter rules. The captial ships are very well done though now I must say
I'd cetainly agree with that. Dodge just doesn't quite cut it with the immense firepower coming in from most locations (just look at the battle report in my last post. A Cylon fighter wave engaging at range rather than in a dogfight! I'm sorry as much as I like the mod that feels wrong). In GW's BFG (I know, I know it's a crap system) any auxillery ships/torps assault craft etc you need a 6 to hit. Shouldn't fighters by their very nature be extremely hard to hit because of their small profile and maneauvrability.
Locutus9956 said:
I'd be interested in that! I've looked at the BSG mod on Voidgamers with the Studio Bergstrom figs and liked the look. Wouldn't mind trying this out.
The Legend
Mongoose
Court Jester said:
I thought that was a lot of Nukes being thrown against me...... Yeah I probably missed the paragraph where it says can only be launched once per game.
Court Jester said:
Now that does seem more like it. Like I think I said earlier I don't think that the Vipers should be at all easy to knock out at range and even a 3+ dodge makes them vulnerable against 12 AD from a wave.
Court Jester said:
Don't actually think they need too much of a look at really just the Vipers seem far too easy to kill. Otherwise fantastic mod. Really feels like the show and was great fun to play. Ha lets see that Basestar take me down without multiple Nuke Launches!!!!! :twisted:
The Legend
Mongoose
cordas said:
Shame about those multiple Nukes Eh? :wink:
captainsmirk
Mongoose
That would be the paragraph and sentance you missed.
*Edit: Ooops, forgot to say its on the second page...
Nick
Court Jester
Mongoose
Okay...
Something has been bugging me for a while about the rules.
In B5 it is assumed that all firepower hits... so you just make Damage Rolls.
In VaS you have AD and then DD.
I have just stated up the guns for the ships inserting an AA columb and a DD columb.
In BSG you see missles missing and shots going wide all the time.
Adding this system means fighters can be made hard to hit. Ships all have a target and a hull score. You roll to hit and then any hits turns into damage dice.
A sample stat line for the guns would then look like so...
Weapon________Range____arc___AD___DD___Traits
Fore Battery_____18_______F_____4_____2____Fire Control
So instead of having 8 AD you have 4 (one for each turret) and each hit will turn into 2 DD.
Adding this system into the existing ACT rules should be very easy. Add some simple range based modifiers and away you go. Fighters have a Target score of 6 but a very low hull score. Basestars have both low. Battlestars have mid-low target but very good hull.
Thoughts?
Something has been bugging me for a while about the rules.
In B5 it is assumed that all firepower hits... so you just make Damage Rolls.
In VaS you have AD and then DD.
I have just stated up the guns for the ships inserting an AA columb and a DD columb.
In BSG you see missles missing and shots going wide all the time.
Adding this system means fighters can be made hard to hit. Ships all have a target and a hull score. You roll to hit and then any hits turns into damage dice.
A sample stat line for the guns would then look like so...
Weapon________Range____arc___AD___DD___Traits
Fore Battery_____18_______F_____4_____2____Fire Control
So instead of having 8 AD you have 4 (one for each turret) and each hit will turn into 2 DD.
Adding this system into the existing ACT rules should be very easy. Add some simple range based modifiers and away you go. Fighters have a Target score of 6 but a very low hull score. Basestars have both low. Battlestars have mid-low target but very good hull.
Thoughts?
captainsmirk
Mongoose
Interesting, I did actually think a while ago that the VaS firing system would be more appropriate but we seemed to be avoiding too much change from ACtA. (Although now I think about it I seem to remember plenty of fire going wide in B5 too...)
So yeah I be all for this sort of change.
Nick
So yeah I be all for this sort of change.
Nick
Court Jester
Mongoose
Whats good about this is that it is a big change so not easy to miss. Its when you start adding multiple minor changes to obsure little rules that it starts to get foggy.
I think.
I think.
