ACTA 3e - revised fleet list ideas

[Hash]

So you've just purchased the ACTA 2e fleet list and, hopefully, it's one of the better bound copies (or even better pdf) and you think...hang on there are quite a few things I'd do very differently here!

Was speaking to Tank the other day at the Aldershot tourney about a revised list of ships for tournaments...something that we personally felt was a lot more balanced. (As well as trying out several ideas and concepts on how we might want the game to play like)...effectively ACTA as we might want it to be rather than what it's like now (which is till a pretty fun game).

Was therefore interested in peoples comments about individual ships, fleets, and general quirks of the game that, through virtue of play, you might want to change...sort of like a completely unofficial 3e

 

[TGT]

well will MGP want to run tourneys in the future?
if not then the acta system will become fan based and so yep don't see why not

 

[Foxmeister]

It's a great idea. I'd start with the excellent suggestions in Da Boss's thread:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33234&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc

One thing I would definitely like to see, is a reworking of how initiative and boresight work together. I had this problem painfully demonstrated to me again just last night - it wasn't pretty! :roll:

Regards,

Dave

 

[Da Boss]

I like the idea - however getting a consus will not be easy

The thread mentioned does (before it goes off at our usual tangents :lol: ) cover quite a few things..........

In some ways the subject almost needs a forum of its own to discuss the various different elements - Initiative and Bore sight alone will take a lot of disucssing? The Gaim is another..........

I imagine there will be several conflicting ideas of how people would want a 3rd Ed to look? It is possible that we will end up with some degree of unavoidable fragmentation if / when we go down this route?

 

[Burger]

I like the idea - however getting a consus will not be easy

Yeah, same here.

I think small changes will be the order of the day. Changing initiative and boresight will just be too complicated and will change the way the game works so much, that it will be a different game entirely. But fixing the Gaim, nerfing the demos, depowering the crit table a bit... roll it on!

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Can somebody point me in the direction of the problem with the Gaim. I've missed the thread somewhere along the lines, Cheers.

 

[locarno24]

Basically:

1) The Queen rules - there is no limit to the number of queenships you can take, which seems a bit off. Also the supposed crew quality penalty on losing the queen is irrelevant as every ship has a flight computer.

2) The queen ships are a bit on the tough side; hull 6, interceptors and advanced anti-fighter in spades at any fighting weight.

3) The interaction of the abilities; the Klikkitak crewed missile is abnormally deadly for its stats because fighter screens and or ships in close formation around escorts get blown away by photon bombs.

None of these are too bad, I think.


4) The real complaint is the Shuuka (skirmish-priority queen); 40" range turreted weapons which ignore interceptors, dodge, or stealth. 8 attack dice per ship. Being AP, this translates to about 4 hits per ship on a hull 5 target if you've spread your fleet out (but then you get swarmed by klikkitaks) on a skirmish-priority vessel.

The key thing is that they can drop this every turn, whilst flying abeam of or away from the enemy, and whilst 6" per turn isn't awe-inspiring, it's not too slow either. The most common thought experiment offered is 10 Shuukas in a 5 point raid fleet versus any hull 5 fleet does an average of 33 damage per turn; or (for instance) a white star removed in each salvo, with 360 degree 40" range coverage and 40 wings of the best breaching pods in the game if you try and close the distance.



I must admit I've never played with Gaim, so I'm only paraphrasing the complaints elsewhere, but I do agree that the Shuuka's ridiculously long-ranged photon bombs appear unbalanced.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33254
See here if you want to read the full version.

 

[Da Boss]

What do people think of my Shadow and Vorlon Fleet lists being used for 3e (from Darkness Rising) - a few more ships, options etc?

 

[GhostRecon]

I think small changes will be the order of the day. Changing initiative and boresight will just be too complicated and will change the way the game works so much, that it will be a different game entirely. But fixing the Gaim, nerfing the demos, depowering the crit table a bit... roll it on!

I agree with Burger, except for initiative and boresight, which I believe really needs fixing. Something as simple as Raking Fire, which really enables ships to do nothing more than what they should be able to do, if it wern't for how initiative sinks overaffect boresight, would go a long way to resolving the issues. The simple solution lies not, I think, in changing the initiative system itself, but changing boresight's interactions with the initiative system and initiative sinks. By enabling boresight, for example, to bypass these artificial restrictions at a penalty, you keep intact the Initiative System (The Third Rail of ACTA) while maintaining the purposed mechanics of boresight (You still have to fly straight at your target to get boresights).

That, and some fleets could use some more attention... EA Crusade is pretty weak in low priority, even something as simple as transferring the Olympus and Avenger over or upping the Chronos' capabilities would be a big help (And, in fact, in the Babylon 5: A Call To Arms movie, you still see Olympus Corvettes in the EarthForce fleet, so don't tell me the Olympus was outmoded). Other fleets also come to mind, such as the Shadows (And the Shadow Fighter...).

As for the Gaim, its not exactly one element that makes them overpowered, but how all those elements work in synergy to create the "overpowered" tidal wave.

The Shuuka is the prime example and culprit, all at once. The 40 inch E-mines by themselves are not impossible to overcome, by themselves, however; paired with all the -OTHER- factors of the Gaim fleet, the Boarding Pods and Assault Drones rules, the Klikkita Fighters, ontop of the various smaller "technology" traits the Gaim get, all combine to make them unbalanced. As locarno summarized, flight computers that reduce the purpose of the Queen rule (In addition to no Queen limitations, restrictions, or requirements which make an all-Queen fleet possible), Advanced Anti-Fighter ontop of turreted E-mines and +1 Dogfight Klikkita waves, etc., all combine to make the Gaim fleet a veritable tidal wave that is extremely difficult to counter, and remains so even if you purposely build a fleet to defeat them.

 

[Shadow Queen]

What do people think of my Shadow and Vorlon Fleet lists being used for 3e (from Darkness Rising) - a few more ships, options etc?

as stone cold steve austin would say "hell yeah"

 

[Shadow Queen]

i think i might type up an advanced Vree Scout

 

[No. 1 Bear]

How about a vorlon carrier as a variant a vorlon scout, a dedicated shadow carrier, and an improvement to the existing shadow fighter.

 

[Shadow Queen]

How about a vorlon carrier as a variant a vorlon scout, a dedicated shadow carrier, and an improvement to the existing shadow fighter.

in my opinion the vorlons dont need a carrier ... as for the Shadows go for it Charles....

 

[Da Boss]

How about a vorlon carrier as a variant a vorlon scout, a dedicated shadow carrier, and an improvement to the existing shadow fighter.

Been there - Done that :wink:

 

[nekomata fuyu]

With regards to the Psi Corps fleet, I would seriously consider changing it so that it's the black ops ships that get added to an EA fleet. You would then need some special rule that means that there's a drawback to taking black ops ships along, otherwise everyone would just play the new EA: Black Ops fleet list, just so that they have the options open. Maybe you could take the scanning rules from Recon Run, and say that you can always claim VP in such a way for scanning EA:BO vessels?

 

[silashand]

The most common thought experiment offered is 10 Shuukas in a 5 point raid fleet versus any hull 5 fleet does an average of 33 damage per turn; or (for instance) a white star removed in each salvo, with 360 degree 40" range coverage and 40 wings of the best breaching pods in the game if you try and close the distance.

FYI, I tried it with 4 queens concentrated on a single White Star and even after two rounds of fire they were still there and not yet crippled. IYAM, anyone who tries a 5pt Raid level fleet with 8 such queens and not much else is asking to get slaughtered because they will probably lose a couple of the queens by turn 2-3 and more the following turns. The Dodge ability and multiple Accurate weapons will probably make sure few fighters get to try and engage them before they can do that.

JMO, but the Theoryhammer that says the Gaim are an auto-win vs ISA is a bit ridiculous.

Cheers, Gary

 

[darklord4]

The most common thought experiment offered is 10 Shuukas in a 5 point raid fleet versus any hull 5 fleet does an average of 33 damage per turn; or (for instance) a white star removed in each salvo, with 360 degree 40" range coverage and 40 wings of the best breaching pods in the game if you try and close the distance.

FYI, I tried it with 4 queens concentrated on a single White Star and even after two rounds of fire they were still there and not yet crippled. IYAM, anyone who tries a 5pt Raid level fleet with 8 such queens and not much else is asking to get slaughtered because they will probably lose a couple of the queens by turn 2-3 and more the following turns. The Dodge ability and multiple Accurate weapons will probably make sure few fighters get to try and engage them before they can do that.

JMO, but the Theoryhammer that says the Gaim are an auto-win vs ISA is a bit ridiculous.

Cheers, Gary

I would guess that this was an example of the worst dice rolling ever then.
4 Shuuka queens should cripple or eliminate the WS in 1 turn.

The strategy of the 5pt raid shuuka gaim vs Whitestar ISA is to have the Kamikazes linger at 6-7" away from the queens in the direction of the WSs. Meanwhile the queens fly around doing 3-4 pts each to the white stars(about 2-3 if the WSs close blast doors). 8 queens take out or cripple about 2 white stars a turn at 40". If the WSs get within 18" beam distance they are then eaten by the 60 kamikazes.

 

[Da Boss]

really you must have had some bad dice !! I watched a Laiti and a Demos be smashed in two turns as well as other ships damaged. In the ECW tourni - the Gaim smashed Liatis with GEG 2 !!!

 

[darklord4]

the Gaim smashed Liatis with GEG 2 !!!

Assuming there was some special GEG2 rule for Liatis in the campaign. Those are really bad dice, especially since e-mines can't crit. The shuukas e-mines are broken into 2 dice increments, so they cannot even touch anything with GEG2.

 

[Da Boss]

Well I admit I was tlaking about the Carriers 4AD mines in that case.............my bad should have mentioned that.


Anyway you summed it up much better than I could how to deal with White Stars with Gaim