About the Narn...

[Burger]

Well you do see a G'Quon destroy a Primus so something needs doing because at the moment it'd be the other way round.

I don't see why the Narn should have second rate weapons to anyone. 'The Narn will sell arms to anyone.' We learn that early on. They will buy arms from anyone too we learn that during their problems with the Centari/Shadows. They supply Sheridan with the nukes he hits Zahadoom (which you can see I can't spell) with. They're also supposed to benefit from weapons tech assistance off the ISA, where's the evidence of that?

I don't wanna own a Primus but I'd like the reasult to be in the balance which at the moment it isn't.

Also much of the Narn way of fighting has been shaped by the Centari so why wouldn't there be some similarities?

That's the post you responded to and it's entirely consistent with everything I've said before.

See Locutus post at the top of the page for soem logic
None of the "reasons" you give for the Narn not having second-rate weapons are actually valid reasons. That's not to say there are no valid reasons, but the ones you give are not valid.

 

[H]

nothing is valid or invalid, it's all made up.

I say Pak weapons fire Spoo at ships. Now prove me wrong. (and I do expect someone to come up with some obscure line from the show where they explain that it's actually dried spoo)

 

[Rawwar]

None of the "reasons" you give for the Narn not having second-rate weapons are actually valid reasons. That's not to say there are no valid reasons, but the ones you give are not valid.

So enlighten us mere mortals rather than jumping into the middle of a thread & engaging me in an argument you are never going to win.

If you agree and you have reasons for that I would much rather hear it thought I don't mind a debate on the fiction issue, others don't want it. So basically contribute rather than trying to tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Burger]

The Narn should have inferior weapons to other races (in terms of quality, not qualtity ie ADs) because it fits in with their fluff and character. How's that?

I'm not telling you you're wrong. I'm telling you your reasons behind your beliefs are wrong. Your beliefs could quite possibly be correct, I don't know, but that would merely be co-incidence rather than logical reasoning.

 

[H]

I don't fully agree. They should have inferior weapons to the Minbari, and probably the centauri and of course the ancients , but superior or equal weapons to earth, superior weapons the gaim who they allegedly introduced to space travel, and equalish weapons to most league races as they traded lots with them.
by that argument the Abbai should in theory have superior weapons to most of the league, as they were the most advenced league race and almost as old as the Minbari, yet only on the Jutaca do we wee pretty good weapons.

 

[Da Boss]

hmm I would contend that the Abbai should have superior defences to most (shields) but no massive advantage in weapons tech?

TL / weapons I see as: not how effective the ships are that can be different

Ancients/Shadows/Vorlons
Minbari/Drakh/ISA/Hyach
Centauri/EA Crusade
Drazi/Narn/EA TA
EA Early years/most league

 

[Rawwar]

The Narn should have inferior weapons to other races (in terms of quality, not qualtity ie ADs) because it fits in with their fluff and character. How's that?

Ok that’s fine but following the fluff basis they’re also an up close & personal race. When B5 is breached Garibaldi tries to set up a fire base to wait for the incoming troops but the Narn just whistle straight past & he’s forced to follow them into the brawl. So following that analogy they should have much more/heavier short ranged firepower.

I also think the Narn & the Centari are two sides of the same coin. Basically the Narn have become the thing they despised to see off the Centari. The only difference is the Centari are much more decadent than the Narn but when it comes to the crunch they too give as good as they get. If it wasn’t for the Shadows the argument goes that the Centari wouldn’t have been able to defeat the Narn, at least without paying a price that was beyond them.

Doesn’t G’Kar get told on the Dust episode that if they carry on down the road they’re going all they’ll do is destroy each other? This is what I signed up to the Narn Regime for because I want to duke it out with the Centari, no quarter given & none asked for. All that results in at the moment is lots of dead Narn & destroyed Narn ships. This is not how it should be & everything I’ve ever seen on B5 points to this.

From what I’ve read on this thread & others I believe my Centari brothers feel as cheated of the ‘good fight’ as I & other Narn players do.

Hence my posts….

 

[Target]

The Centauri would still beat the Narn as they did have more ships but it took them longer to bring them into action.
The Narn were winning at the start & then the Centauri fleet came in force & pushed them back till they were in real trouble hence the gamble G'Sten took but it turned out it was a trap with Shadows.
The Narn had also lost battles with Gaim & EA ( probably ran into a 10 Sag fleet) previously.

According to the Narn source book.
Mount the most powerful weapon on the frame.
There lasers aren't as powerful or have the range of Centauri ones. This isn't so good since ACTA has changed Centari ones. I think we could presume that the Narn would overcharge them hence DD instead of fwd arc precise. Very Narn like
Missles are short ranged & high yield (ion torps)
Mag guns are mounted everywhere although they do have ammo concerns which doesn't matter in game terms. They have less range than lasers.
They are advanced at particle weapons eg pulse wepons, they are rapid firing & hard hitting but once again with short range.
E-Mines expensive, highly damaging but unlikely to cripple ships ( no crits) but are there longest range weapons. Maybe the reason for OS on most ships because of the expense & the trouble they have recyling

Here is some ideas ( the range probably could bigger on bigger ships )
Lasers- Boresight 18" Beam,DD
Ion Torps 15" SAP,TD
Mag Guns 12 Beam, TD
Pulse weaponary 8" lots of AD & DD
Ligh ion Cannon 12" Twinlinked
E-mines standard 30"AP,QD for OS, slow loaders AP,TD
Pulsar emine, as is
The Frazi can almost match the Gorith for speed ( so they are slower)
Gorith is almost better than the Sentri in most area's , silly source book my sentri's are far superior. Maybe they should be +2 dogfight & 12" speed.
Using this a G'Quan would look like
Only going to use weapon stats
Heavy Lasers 25" Boresight 4AD Beam,DD
E-Mine 30" Fwd 6AD E-Mine,QD,OS
Light Ion 12" Fwd 6AD Twinlinked
Pulse 8" Fwd 10AD DD
Port,Starboard & Aft weapons
Light ion 12" 6AD Twinlinked
Pulse 8" 10AD DD

 

[Target]

Just read in the source book that the G'Quan only has front & Rear weapons.
Maybe it should be non lumbering with increased Fwd & Aft weapon loadout. Probably why vorchans can kill them from the other angles.

 

[Da Boss]

sorta like a bigger Varnic ? sounds interesting

 

[Foxmeister]

Doesn't that rather fly in the face of on-screen evidence? I'd take on-screen performance as canon over source book fluff any day.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Target]

Doesn't that rather fly in the face of on-screen evidence? I'd take on-screen performance as canon over source book fluff any day.

Regards,

Dave

I don't think a G'Quan has ever fired any where other fwd & a couple of shots out the back at some sentri's. Haven't seen any side firepower at at all. Just been doing some checking on youtube quickly.

 

[Greg Smith]

Watch 'And Now for a Word'. It fires both pulse weapons and its beam into its side arc.

 

[H]

I thought someone argued that it was a cgi error, because as we all know a narn can't fire a beam anywhere but a straight line forward ;-)

 

[Burger]

Maybe all the boresighted shots were CGI errors?

 

[Target]

Is that the one where they jump in on the primus and destroy it?
I only had clips of it on the youtube but it still looked like a forward arc to me just that the primus was below slightly.
They have had plenty of targets in sides but never seem to fire.
Not that im sayin that the G'Quan should be fwd/aft only but it would make it different to a primus.

 

[Foxmeister]

Not that im sayin that the G'Quan should be fwd/aft only but it would make it different to a primus.

Why should it necessarily be different from a Primus? After all, much of the Narn technology was "inherited" from the Centauri after the first occupation of Narn. It would actually make a lot of sense that Narn shipbuilding would closely follow the Centauri model, since that is what they had to study.

Regards,

Dave

 

[H]

Maybe all the boresighted shots were CGI errors?

they must be as we know that the Whitestar has a forward arc! and all those shots where it's pulsars were it's main weapon and not it's beam, and the script was obviously wrong when it said the centauri don't use cutting weapons (beams) and that bit where G'Kar said only a G'Quan had the firepower needed, when clearly an omega has more, and indeed a hyperion has the same but at a lesser range and so on and so forth.

either way, the G'Quan is still a tad underpowered which is where we were going in this thread at one time

 

[Target]

Not that im sayin that the G'Quan should be fwd/aft only but it would make it different to a primus.

Why should it necessarily be different from a Primus? After all, much of the Narn technology was "inherited" from the Centauri after the first occupation of Narn. It would actually make a lot of sense that Narn shipbuilding would closely follow the Centauri model, since that is what they had to study.

Regards,

Dave

Wouldn't let the Narns hear that. They might insulted they copied a Primus. It would be cooler though if was different. Think would be better copying the Vorchan.

Fwd/Aft G'Quan might look like this

Hull 6 Speed 8" 1/45 Turns
Hits: 60 Crew:70
3 Frazi's Troops 8
Antifighter 2, Jump Engine
Heavy Laser 30" 4 AD Boresight Beam,DD,Twinlinked
Energy Mine 30" 6 AD Fwd E-mine,AP,TD,OS
Heavy Pulse 15" 8 AD Fwd AP
Light Ion Cannon 8" 10 AD Fwd, Twinlinked
Heavy Pulse 15" 8 AD Aft AP
Ligt Ion Cannon 8" 10 AD Twinlinked

 

[Triggy]

Doesn't that rather fly in the face of on-screen evidence? I'd take on-screen performance as canon over source book fluff any day.

Regards,

Dave

I don't think a G'Quan has ever fired any where other fwd & a couple of shots out the back at some sentri's. Haven't seen any side firepower at at all. Just been doing some checking on youtube quickly.

There's also the episode (can't remember the name) when a G'Quan screens the civilians escaping from attacking Vorchans and fires pulse weaponry to the sides, never firing its beam or e-mines... it seemed to show it had some good secondaries (maybe better than the primaries once they're in range or maybe just they couldn't get their boresight into line )