A new vision for High Guard?

[ross]

I understand entirely, but as I've said numerous times before, provided you supply an easy to use spreadsheet the math just melts away. Look at the MGT High Guard spreadsheet we have on this forum - which is fanmade and everyone uses all the time. Imagine a professionally done one that came with the Mongoose equivalent of FF&S.
But, for sure, there is no need to make things more complex than they need to be.

I think a spreadsheet would work with two caveats.
One that it didn’t look like a spreadsheet because that can be intimidating to a lot of users. Myself included.
Two, once you selected the setting, as an example 3rd Imperium or 2300, the options not available in that setting disappear.
Anyway, one man’s opinion.

 

[Vormaerin]

Sounds like no one wants a fleet combat resolution mechanism. So we’re left with kludges like the Pirates of Drinax solution. Fair enough but it does make me scratch my head at the endless ship designs for battle wagons and fleet carriers that are never going to be used.

What gave you that idea?

"No one" (aka the half dozen or so people in this thread) wants fleet combat resolution to cut into the page count and authorial time/effort of a truly comprehensive general ship building book. It should be it's own project.

The deckplans and RPG stats for those battlewagons and fleet carriers get abstracted out in Fleet combat resolution in Mongoose as it is. The warships that don't have usable deckplans are pretty useless, imho, since the main value is running AHL style heists and explorations or Star Wars style escapes.

 

[tytalan]

Spreadsheets are expensive especially a professional built one. Ask Arakthan how many hours he’s put into his spreadsheet now now multiply that by 10 at a minimum and that’s without any VBA work done on it which for some of the things you want would be required. Now consider that to have this done professionally your looking at a minimum of $150.00 per hour more if you include VBA. It’s not as simple as you all think.

 

[MonsterX]

What gave you that idea?

"No one" (aka the half dozen or so people in this thread) wants fleet combat resolution to cut into the page count and authorial time/effort of a truly comprehensive general ship building book. It should be it's own project.

The deckplans and RPG stats for those battlewagons and fleet carriers get abstracted out in Fleet combat resolution in Mongoose as it is. The warships that don't have usable deckplans are pretty useless, imho, since the main value is running AHL style heists and explorations or Star Wars style escapes.

I definitely feel USABLE deckplans should be a top priority.

I'm running the DNR campaign and even with 9 books in written on the campaign, the DNR's deck plans are not fit for purpose - not to play out a tactical combat on, nor even really move character tokens around on very well. There's the Element Class Cruiser blueprints, which aren't exactly beautiful and also aren't actually the post-refit DNR, and they just give you sections that aren't the actual pods in use on the DNR. And these don't have a grid on them either.

Considering the characters are suppose to spend 20 years on the ship, it seems like it would be a good idea show the players what the ship looks like, let them choose their staterooms, find the places they'll go to hide when the Space Monster is chasing them around the ship. Where is the nearest armoury, so you can go fetch some guns to fight off said Space Monster? What space is the right setting for a reception for the fabulous Tisne Zazzle when she comes aboard to sign autographs for crew to thank them for rescuing her people? Where are their work stations, and how far is that from the other work station they might want to run to in the middle of a battle? How close are particular PCs and NPCs to the gaping hole the enemy battleship is blowing in the side of the ship? You need to be able to put the people on the map and kind of know where they generally are. Clearly Mongoose invested in making some beautiful looking deck plans, but not actually in ones that are directly useful for play.

All this can be done theater of the mind but I buy ready adventures in large part for the maps and artwork so I can show the players the people and things they encounter, and the places they go to. If it were just about me making shit up, I can do that myself, but good and appropriate professionally produced visual aides really make published adventures worth it.

A more usable and interesting space combat system would be nice as well. (Just so my post is not totally off the thread topic )

 

[ross]

Sounds like no one wants a fleet combat resolution mechanism. So we’re left with kludges like the Pirates of Drinax solution. Fair enough but it does make me scratch my head at the endless ship designs for battle wagons and fleet carriers that are never going to be used.

Well you can always update Brilliant Lances…

 

[Vormaerin]

I definitely feel USABLE deckplans should be a top priority.

I would love usable deckplans that I can run AHL style scenarios on. I just don't think that they belong in the core rulebook on shipbuilding. Fighting Ships of the Third Imperium, Traders & Gunboats, etc are where those can get the space the deserve instead of being at the expense of the rules.

DNR is effectively the same ship as the Element Class Cruiser, isn't it? Not sure if that monstrosity of blueprints and deckplans is actually any more useful, though

 

[MonsterX]

I would love usable deckplans that I can run AHL style scenarios on. I just don't think that they belong in the core rulebook on shipbuilding. Fighting Ships of the Third Imperium, Traders & Gunboats, etc are where those can get the space the deserve instead of being at the expense of the rules.

DNR is effectively the same ship as the Element Class Cruiser, isn't it? Not sure if that monstrosity of blueprints and deckplans is actually any more useful, though

Usable deckplans for big ships are BIG. Probably each big ship effectively needs its own book, which really limits the number of ships you can do this way. On the other hand, doing this gives Referees a reason to buy lots of books, since then you get to have lots of ship deckplans.

The DNR is the same ship, but the ship is built mainly out of pods which are different to the standard ones. The naval blueprints are useful but effectively only cover the aft and fore.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I wish Mongoose had drawn the element class/DNR at tower blocks, like AHL then used 15mm deck plans as per AHL.

The current deck plans are useless art the game table. Mine have never been out of the box.

I think the original idea was to use Vanguard (the cancelled kickstarter) to provide geomorphs so you could build sections of the ship as battle mats at the table.

 

[NOLATrav]

A ship like DNR needs to be presented as a pointcrawl, with geomorphs available to build PC level stuff.

The geomorphs are available, we need to do the pointcrawl scale.

Imagine if you had a pointcrawl map to use at starship combat time frame, that you could drill into with geomorphs to do personal combat timeframes. It’s there, we just need to clarify it.

 

[Condottiere]

At some point, there will be cheap enough monitor screens that can be spread across a table, and blueprints can be scaled as appropriate to the situation.

 

[NOLATrav]

True but we shouldn’t have to wait for technology to catch up with our minds.

 

[Condottiere]

In the meantime ...

 

[NOLATrav]

Well

Amazing people have built Type S Scouts and Firefly class ships out of Legos…

I feel like building the DNR out of Legos is a multi-year project. And an expensive one. Probably a fool’s errand.

Not being snarky. Thinking about VTTs. And printable USABLE maps at the table.

 

[Condottiere]

They're modular.

You can rebuild each deck.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I wish Mongoose had drawn the element class/DNR at tower blocks, like AHL then used 15mm deck plans as per AHL.

The current deck plans are useless art the game table. Mine have never been out of the box.

I think the original idea was to use Vanguard (the cancelled kickstarter) to provide geomorphs so you could build sections of the ship as battle mats at the table.

That would have been amazing. I wonder why it was cancelled.

 

[AndrewW]

At some point, there will be cheap enough monitor screens that can be spread across a table, and blueprints can be scaled as appropriate to the situation.

Use 3D holographic projectors instead.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Neuralink them right to your brain...

 

[MonsterX]

Probably a fool’s errand.

Any fool's around? Anyone? Besides me I mean.

A ship like DNR needs to be presented as a pointcrawl, with geomorphs available to build PC level stuff.

The geomorphs are available, we need to do the pointcrawl scale.

Imagine if you had a pointcrawl map to use at starship combat time frame, that you could drill into with geomorphs to do personal combat timeframes. It’s there, we just need to clarify it.

If you mean Robert Pearce's starship geomorphs, those are an awesome resource. I highly recommend using them. I've used them lots of times, for space stations. But they are hard to match up with what is needed for DNR. I could use them and just ignore the inconsistencies, but I also don't want to end up using the same layouts for the DNR as for the other place the PCs go.

 

[actionman]

not to mention the homemade rulesets.

It might be nice to see some pdfs of those someday.

 

[Vormaerin]

That would have been amazing. I wonder why it was cancelled.

Because the kickstarter was clearly not going to be successful and Mongoose chose not to invest more time in trying to recover from the poor start. The why it did poorly is rather more complicated and not entirely subject to a consensus opinion.