A new, new ship supplement

[AdrianH]

no no, I am agreeing, someone stated now one should have carriers cos they are not in the show, or everyone should have them.
now then i AM of the opinion that because A gets somethign B should too, thats not how it should work, but the argument that remove it if it's not in the show would make the game what 12 ship types? would be very boring.
in this instance i do think the Vrolons should get a carrier, but i don't see any reason for them to get a scout.

It was I who said that either everyone should get carriers or noone. The principle does not apply to everything (e-mines, for example), but the fleet carrier is a whole class of ship and its lack can be a significant disadvantage.

Turn it around - is there any good reason why the Vorlons and Shadows should not get a carrier, given that just about everyone else has one? Respawning fighters with precise beams, or fighters with shields - would that break either race's fleet?

The planet killer might be interesting, but then good luck modelling the Shadows' Death Cloud.

 

[lastbesthope]

no one showed they could "run silent" so remove that from the game. (oh yes, I know, someone is going to remind me of leniers fighter now aren't they)

Well that and Ivanova and MArcus hiding untnil they were spotted by that SHadow Scout.

LBH

 

[H]

no one showed they could "run silent" so remove that from the game. (oh yes, I know, someone is going to remind me of leniers fighter now aren't they)

Well that and Ivanova and MArcus hiding untnil they were spotted by that SHadow Scout.

LBH

valid point, but they were hiding behind a planet using it to mask them, if Run Silent came with a stipulation that must be behind planet/moon/large space station, it would be more accurate

 

[lastbesthope]

But the reason they were spotted was because they drifted out of cover of the planet, the reason they drifted out of cover was that Marcus didn't fire the engines to maintain position because that too would have flagged their presence, so they were running silent asd well as hiding in the planet's shadow.

Admittedly nomatter what they did they were going to be spotted.

LBH

 

[Lokai]

isn't this variant kinda underpowered? just comparing it to a light cruiser? i know my math isn't exactly right but if i assume of the Light cruisers 6 beam QD you should get 3 hits from first roll 2(if you round up from 1.5) on second roll and 1 from third roll you'd have 6x4=24 damage you could expect per turn...

the carrier variant by comparison which is less manueverable has over 25% less hits and almost half the range on its weapons can expect first roll to provide 1 hit, and the second roll (if we're generous and round .5 up) another for second roll total of 2x2=4 damage then we add the fighters which is 9 dice so we could expect 5 hits (if we round 4.5 up) on first roll, 3 hits (if we round 2.5 up), 2 hits (rounding up yet again) followed by 1 more hit for a total of 15 damage...and we were a bit more generous for the carrier rounding up. on the up side there is a lot more antifighter capablity and there is the chance of fighters coming back with Fleet Carrier but its easier to knock out the fighters as a ships weapons systems....and vorlons self regen crits anyway so meh.

even at 9 fighters on this ship i can't see getting it over a light cruiser unless you really feel you need that fighter screen. As someone suggested i could see droping the fighter numbers but the ships damage would have to go up, i could see it losing range, but not range AND a HUGE amount of its firepower for the 9 fighters which i don't feel even comes close to the trade off for ships weaspons AND loss in hits/maneuver.

i know someone else can give me a better comparison mathmaticly speaking and i expect to get flamed into oblivion which is fine, just want other peoples take on this.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Oh for an in site spell check.... ;>

 

[Silvereye]

The only benefit to the Shadows/Vorlons getting a Carrier is the Repair and Replenish it provides during campaigns.

We never see a Vorlon ship launch fighters in the show. They are always flying free in space. This is well represented by the purchase mechanics at present.

Shadows have the fighter dispersal tubes as seen in the show.

So instead of having a 'dedicated carrier' why not apply the traits into the racial fleet rules. for example: Each Battle level ship in the roster spawns 1 flight, each War level ship spawns 2 flight and Each Armageddon level ship spawns 4 flights for the campaign Repair and Replenish.

Its really the lack of the Fleet Carrier trait that is the missing bit in the fleets, as that allows the in game recovery and re-launch of 'dead' fighters and the dogfight buff.

 

[Ripple]

Again we have the argument that we didn't see it in the show, so this race shouldn't have it. Why can't we get past that one.

Do we see any Centauri launching swarms of fighters?

How about Brakiri?

Vree?

They are all in the show, two of them don't even have fighters in the show. But we aren't even discussing whether they should have them.

We see the fighters launched in the few scenes we have showing Vorlons. They could easily be purchased, but they don't necessarily HAVE to be that way to appear. Buying wings should be an option, not a requirement to be consistent with the show.

From a game mechanic angle, having to give up vps for flights is not balanced if your opponent can avoid doing so by buying them as part of a package deal. The campaign issues just make it worse.

Ripple

 

[David Anla Shok']

Let's think outside of the box a bit here. The Vorlons have no carriers but they don't need them? Vorlon fighters are sentient biological constructs not requiring maintenance bays? We can postulate the possibility of Vorlon fighters merely needing to attach themselves to a larger ship hull for extended transportation, deriving power/sustenance from the host ship.
All we have to do is determine the number of fighters a ship can support, based on hull size perhaps?
If we still "need" a carrier we can have a ship configured with some odd bits like command and carrier stats.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Let's think outside of the box a bit here. The Vorlons have no carriers but they don't need them? Vorlon fighters are sentient biological constructs not requiring maintenance bays? We can postulate the possibility of Vorlon fighters merely needing to attach themselves to a larger ship hull for extended transportation, deriving power/sustenance from the host ship.
All we have to do is determine the number of fighters a ship can support, based on hull size perhaps?
If we still "need" a carrier we can have a ship configured with some odd bits like command and carrier stats.

Agreed on all points. Larger Vorlon ships "carrying" some fighters would eliminate the VP imbalance they suffer from due to buying fighter wings. Maybe create variants of the current ships with less AD on the beams and some fighter flights, or create a single Vorlon carrier with fighters and defensive armament.

 

[Kosh127]

Reply to Lokai well its kind of underpowered but did you see that it is a Battle ship and not a war ship. Its gun as a carrier should not be strong its a defense we open.

Reply to david AS. How ever you want to say that a fighter should be birthed and refueled or recharged or feed its all the same. The idea of the ship is what you are stating just how you describe it is different. As for putting a command bonus on it that not something MGP will do and it would push the ship over the top.


Try not looking at the ship as a Light Cruiser. Look at is as a fleet carrier that looks like the LC. I would have just called it the Carrier if I could build a figure that would do it justice. As I can't I just made ita variant to fix a hole in the Vorlon fleet. I am trying to make a ship that people can use for the Vorlons and maybe have MGP see it as not overpowered or crazy but as a ship that could help a fleet be more well rounded and balanced. To this end I have tried to make things make sense as in the Vorlon fleet list by not changing rules or coming up with things that don't reflect the fleet. If you want to be taken seriously then try to make something that they would see as a good fair idea. Not another super big ship that none will use.

P.S. check the ship states again I updated them.

 

[Kosh127]

Why the ship is the way it is. To make this a thing to try and push in my club and maybe just maybe get MGP to look at it I wanted to take all the things in the fleet and just “fix or tweak” a hole in it. That’s why it’s a variant and not a new ship. It’s a battle level ship and a carrier so take a look at all the carriers in the game. The damage is now 5 less than a ship of the line. Try and say it is to tough now. The turns are less than its main hull design and much less than its battle level counterpart. As fleet carriers are not fast in B5 or very maneuverable. Its gun is that of a Skirmish ship, instead of trying to justify creating a new gun or making it as the other battle ship or even the raid ship just go small. Its weapon is only there to defend itself it ships break thought and target it (as most carriers are) Its state line it almost the same as its battle level counterpart . The anitfighter is higher as in all fleets with carriers AF is higher than its ships at the same level. It can start with half of its fighters out and still get them all out by turn 1 even though they cannot go on scramble scramble. The fleet does not have the order and as such its very comparable to all fleets and very Vorlon like to get all of the fighters out by turn one. Giving them the Fleet carrier ability lets you reconstitute your fighters in game and even replace some losses during a campaign. The ship has a purpose and is not overpowered. It you dislike the idea of Vorlons launching fighter then go away, just because you dislike it does not mean they should be the only fleet incapable of launching stuff. If you see a flaw in how the ship is made or believe it is to powerful and have a argument to prove it great lets hear it. I want to make this ship fair and usable.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Reply to Lokai well its kind of underpowered but did you see that it is a Battle ship and not a war ship. Its gun as a carrier should not be strong its a defense we open.

Reply to david AS. How ever you want to say that a fighter should be birthed and refueled or recharged or feed its all the same. The idea of the ship is what you are stating just how you describe it is different. As for putting a command bonus on it that not something MGP will do and it would push the ship over the top.


Try not looking at the ship as a Light Cruiser. Look at is as a fleet carrier that looks like the LC. I would have just called it the Carrier if I could build a figure that would do it justice. As I can't I just made ita variant to fix a hole in the Vorlon fleet. I am trying to make a ship that people can use for the Vorlons and maybe have MGP see it as not overpowered or crazy but as a ship that could help a fleet be more well rounded and balanced. To this end I have tried to make things make sense as in the Vorlon fleet list by not changing rules or coming up with things that don't reflect the fleet. If you want to be taken seriously then try to make something that they would see as a good fair idea. Not another super big ship that none will use.

P.S. check the ship states again I updated them.

So, any ship can carry fighters. We just need a command variant of a light or heavy cruiser with carrier functions.

 

[Kosh127]

in a sence but that will never happen people cry bloodly murder when its a carrier much less when anyship can do it. The idea to me would be that yes they are alive and yes they create there own fuel but a carrier not only filles a gap in there fleet but makes sense. a dedicated carrier makes more sense to me.

 

[David Anla Shok']

in a sence but that will never happen people cry bloodly murder when its a carrier much less when anyship can do it. The idea to me would be that yes they are alive and yes they create there own fuel but a carrier not only filles a gap in there fleet but makes sense. a dedicated carrier makes more sense to me.

Surely. If one wishes to think of one of the Ancients being conventional. I don't. Not having conventional uses for their fleet, I like to think that they would prefer vessels with flexible capabilities, not so many dedicated to specific roles.

 

[Lokai]

yeah i didn't catch that it was a battle selection, in which case it actually comes out being VERY tough lil bugger which brings a descent damage potential for a battle level fleet carrier. but many people are against vorlons getting a fleet carrier, i'd just be happy with some means of bringing fighters into an engagment with out having to buy them and thus potentially give away some easy VP's.

hope something comes out in 1.2 test pack when ever that rolls out.

 

[David Anla Shok']

yeah i didn't catch that it was a battle selection, in which case it actually comes out being VERY tough lil bugger which brings a descent damage potential for a battle level fleet carrier. but many people are against vorlons getting a fleet carrier, i'd just be happy with some means of bringing fighters into an engagment with out having to buy them and thus potentially give away some easy VP's.

hope something comes out in 1.2 test pack when ever that rolls out.

Excellent reasons.

 

[Kosh127]

Lokia well its a tough ship ut it lacks a few of the things almost all carriers have at that level or under for that matter.
1 its weopen fire power is much less than the bone head Morshin carrier 6 inch shorter range and 18 mini beam weaker
-cann't get all its fighter out by turn 1
- no command
its damage is lowwer than the Vorlon battle ship also (as it should be)
Its tough for sure but unless you get a run away beam hit it should no do that much damage.