A New Beginning

[Gramvandle]

Hello all!

I recently discovered and fell in love with Legend after a rather long search for just such a system. I have been running a small storyline with a friend of mine over skype and so far we are having a great time.

He and I, as well as others I have seen on this board, have mentioned a modern/near furture version of the rules as being something desireable. I am thinking of House-Ruling some things of my own in an attempt to make something like that for a setting I have been working on off-an-on over the years, but was wondering what parts of the system need the most tweaking to do so?

I am still new to the Legend system, and know nothing of its old days as RQ, which I think is a good thing at this point as I am an open canvas with no bias to old rules... So where do you all think I should start?

Thanks in advance

Chris

 

[alex_greene]

Look at the skills section. You can add a ton of advanced skills to that section, such as Flight skill for planes and helicopters, and Computer as a common skill with Programming as an Advanced Skill.

You'd need a new term for Lore - perhaps Knowledge - and specialised fields such as Science, History, Medicine, Architecture etc., and narrower specialities such as Neurosurgery, Psychology, Mathematics, Renaissance Architecture and so on.

You'd need a new set of Combat Styles: Sidearm, Machine Pistol, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, Assault Weapon, Grenade, LAWS ...

Look at the careers. Most will now come from civilised backgrounds, with "Homeless" and "Traveller" generally replacing "Nomadic" though some true nomadic cultures do still exist in the world. Few primitive cultures still exist and practically no barbarian cultures, with the closest being the thriving criminal elements and mobile groups such as the Hells Angels.

Don't ask me for information regarding the ranges, rates of fire etc, of firearms. I really have no data to help you with there.

Magic comes across as a very tricky subject. Will you allow it in the game? If so, what kind? Sorcery looks like a good one, with its emphasis on Grimoires - and several do exist; Chaos, Left Hand Path, Thelemic, Kabbalistic, Taoist, Tantric, Asatru, Buddhist and Neopagan spring readily to mind. Keep effects very very subtle. The spell effects should look like something just happened naturally, like a wall falling on someone rather than an Earth elemental rising up out of the ground, or a victim looking peaky because he must have eaten something that disagreed with him rather than his skin going all parchment-like and veiny and a stream of energy flying from his mouth to the character's due to being hit with Tap CON and Tap SIZ at the same time.

Will you allow alchemy from Arms of Legend, perhaps as a somewhat esoteric branch of Knowledge (Chemistry) that produces powerful, yet unexpectedly non-reproducible results such as longevity and even immortality?

There's so much you can do, in a world where everything's a phone call and a WiFi connection away from everywhere else, and where a man with a decent blog and a videocam can make more of an adventure than a dozen old hat adventurers with nothing but furry boots, swords and goatskin loincloths to cover their modesty. Not to mention the male adventurers ...

 

[Dan True]

Me and Mixster is working on a Modern conversion at the moment, and have had the first test play of the combat system.

In our view a modern conversion will need various tweaks many places, but must could be handled by house rules. The most significant change needed is in the combat system. The way movement is handled, the availible Combat Manouvres etc. are simply not sufficient for modern combat. If you wish to make a modern conversion, this is the area I think needs most attention.
This ofc has a dependency on the equipment section - how are weapons expressed, combat styles needed etc.

But other than the combat system, most of Legend can be used fairly directly.

- Dan

 

[strega]

You should look at downloading a character sheet for Modern Call of Cthulhu/Delta Green. Maybe one from The Laundry or just look at some of the other possibilities over at basicroleplaying.com

All of these games use a variant of the Chaosium BRP D100 system and will have a variety of skills listed that you can choose for your own game.

 

[DamonJynx]

You should look at downloading a character sheet for Modern Call of Cthulhu/Delta Green. Maybe one from The Laundry or just look at some of the other possibilities over at basicroleplaying.com

All of these games use a variant of the Chaosium BRP D100 system and will have a variety of skills listed that you can choose for your own game.

This.

Get the Big Gold Book (BRP System) and convert the modern stuff across. Some don't need conversion at all, for example Alex quoted a Flight skill, you could use the drive skill and just rename it Pilot (insert type of craft). Stuff like that. I prefer the Legend system to BRP but they do have some good stuff in there.

 

[jux]

The idea of a modern Legend does not click in my head. Legend is all about medieval combat. Modern combat is usually gunfight. All the cool stuff from legend (armor, combat moves, defencive moves) does not apply in this. I think you cannot add such great detail in gunfight as it is in melee fight in Legend.

I quite like the more abstract dnd approach in the sci-fi game Stars Without Number where the better the armor the harder to hit (the harder to do damage). The hp is not divided into body regions though, but it does not matter that much in sci-fi setting.

 

[alex_greene]

Legend is all about medieval combat.

I'm sure there's plenty of leeway there, and Legend is just as tactical at the swords and crossbows level as it would be at the MAC-10 vs AK-47 level, although there is a lot more to Legend than just hack-'n'-slash, to the point where if you just want to focus on combat you might as well just buy a console and play Skyrim or something.

I just thought of something else. When dealing with gunfire, characters who survive tend to really, really like the idea of cover as a tactical option, and the same generally applies to fantasy Legend when characters encounter arrows, sorcery and dragons' breath.

 

[Dan True]

The idea of a modern Legend does not click in my head. Legend is all about medieval combat. Modern combat is usually gunfight. All the cool stuff from legend (armor, combat moves, defencive moves) does not apply in this. I think you cannot add such great detail in gunfight as it is in melee fight in Legend.

I disagree, but I am of course also working on it so I'm biased. I think Legend has the potential to become a much better combat system than I have so far seen for modern. Combining realism and action-orientation - the balance is a hard edge.

Combat Manoeuvres in facts gives the possibility to reflect the dynamics of modern combat (albeit, with drastically new CMs and movement rules).. I have not seen a system which reflects how important manoeuvring is in modern combat.

- Dan

 

[jux]

Legend is all about medieval combat.

... there is a lot more to Legend than just hack-'n'-slash, to the point where if you just want to focus on combat you might as well just buy a console and play Skyrim or something.

What I meant was, that Legend stands out from other fantasy RPG games especially in combat rules. It is much more detailed, realistic yet simple, have tactical options and give role play opportunities. To enjoy good combat rules does not mean enjoying hack-n-slash. I believe the few of all the gamers who end up chatting in these forums all know this.

But I simply don't see how such a detailed realism can be brought to modern gunfight combat. It must be totally different than Legend (why call it Legend then). I'd like to be wrong.

 

[jux]

Combat Manoeuvres in facts gives the possibility to reflect the dynamics of modern combat (albeit, with drastically new CMs and movement rules).. I have not seen a system which reflects how important manoeuvring is in modern combat.

I think modern combat is not dynamic at all. Movement is not important. When it comes to enemy contact, finding cover and shooting position is important: pic.

 

[alex_greene]

Modern may have a good deal of emphasis on firearms, but don't forget the various styles of martial arts unarmed (Aikido, Judo, Karate, Wing Chun etc) and armed (Escrima, Yawara, Kubotan, Quarterstaff, Irish Whisky Dance, Spetznaz Knife Fighting, CQB, MAC and police restraint training techniques, not to mention Atemi and Street Fighting styles).

Your modern game can involve a lot of basic fisticuffs (bar fights, brawls out in the street, use of an improvised broken pool cue or a crowbar or tyre iron as a persuader, barstool smackdowns, curb stomping, nad shots) as well as the oft-neglected art of the staredown (Influence or Streetwise vs. Persistence).

 

[Dan True]

Combat Manoeuvres in facts gives the possibility to reflect the dynamics of modern combat (albeit, with drastically new CMs and movement rules).. I have not seen a system which reflects how important manoeuvring is in modern combat.

I think modern combat is not dynamic at all. Movement is not important. When it comes to enemy contact, finding cover and shooting position is important: pic.

Except that if you bog down in cover eventually you'll find a grenade in face or run out of ammo (as the enemy is also in cover, and both sides are wasting their ammo).
What I know of modern combat is based on my conscription in the danish army. We were trained much in manoeuvring... essentially you take cover first, try to force your opponent to keep their head down while you or your friends outflank them to get a better firing position.

Movement is much more essential in modern combat than raw firepower. Of course cover is also important, and you are of course not storming forward by moving from cover to cover. The guy that flanks first and therefore negates the enemies cover, will have a major advantage.

Essentially, if you take movement away from modern combat you're left with essentially what happened in the first world war.. every engagement boils down to a trench-warfare-like situation.

- Dan

 

[rust]

I think modern combat is not dynamic at all. Movement is not important.

In modern combat frequent movement is the only way to avoid being
killed by the artillery support or close air support the enemy can call in.
Stay in one place for too long and you can mark it as your gravesite.

 

[jux]

In modern combat frequent movement is the only way to avoid being
killed by the artillery support or close air support the enemy can call in.
Stay in one place for too long and you can mark it as your gravesite.

I think you meant in Modern Warfare (the computer game) - strafe, strafe! ... just kidding.
It comes down to the question, what kind of combat we are talking about and what the game should try to simulate. I was talking about modern warfare (not the computer game this time) of a rifle unit (there is also urban warfare, etc), but clearly the RPG is not about that. As alex_greene explained, there are many more ways to kill each other in modern times.

The Legend itself is not simulating specific type of warfare either. Roman legions fought quite differently than individual barbarian fighters for example. In Legend we are adventurers.

The modern Legend would also be about individual heroes I believe. So it will be more what we have been used to seeing from TV than what it actually is in real life. So think Matrix and Jet Lee movies. But I still cannot imagine how this can be done to be at the same level of detail and fun factor as original Legend combat.

Why I think it is hard to make modern Legend combat as exiting is because that is what it is in real life compared to medieval battle. It takes different level of manliness and courage to take out a sward and fight with somebody to the death than to "bust a cap in your ass".

 

[jux]

Essentially, if you take movement away from modern combat you're left with essentially what happened in the first world war.. every engagement boils down to a trench-warfare-like situation.

It goes a little off-topic now, sorry, but WWI vs WWII warfare difference was not in movement of individual men in the battlefield. It was more about movement of big armies, logistics. Blitzkrieg. Motorized units. We are still using trenches for defence. But now we also have artillery, bombardment, etc which make the defencive positions more vulnerable. What has always been true is that the loser has always prepared for the last war. Future warfare will be different than what we know as modern warfare (basically WW2 tactics). Think robots and nukes :/

 

[Dan True]

It goes a little off-topic now, sorry, but WWI vs WWII warfare difference was not in movement of individual men in the battlefield.

True, but the problems persisted even down to squad level. At the beginning of the war, the company was the smallest unit that could be individually issued orders from the higher-ups. And the Junior officers & NCOs was generally not trained to lead their platoons and squads efficiently.

The point still stands though.. if we two were having a firefight and we both hunkered down behind our covers - if we both knew what we were doing, the fight would become a "trench-warfare-situation", for individuals rather than armies. Unless we can shoot the cover to pieces, it will likely end when one of us runs out of ammo.

With regards to the type of combats, it is a valid point. The combat system should however be applicable for both tactical combat (say, playing soldiers in WW2 or Iraq) and more action-packed fights, such as special agents, gang warfare etc.

But, it is hard discussing the validity of a theoretical system. From the test play we have had, I find the system to be fitting - but it is of course hard to show, without showing the complete system.

- Dan

 

[soltakss]

I recently discovered and fell in love with Legend after a rather long search for just such a system. I have been running a small storyline with a friend of mine over skype and so far we are having a great time.

Having a great time is the best part of playing Legend. Glad you enjoy it.

He and I, as well as others I have seen on this board, have mentioned a modern/near furture version of the rules as being something desireable. I am thinking of House-Ruling some things of my own in an attempt to make something like that for a setting I have been working on off-an-on over the years, but was wondering what parts of the system need the most tweaking to do so?

House Rule away! Legend is such a flexible and welcoming system that it is very easy to houserule. As it is OGL, you can publish your houserules so other people can use them easily.

I am still new to the Legend system, and know nothing of its old days as RQ, which I think is a good thing at this point as I am an open canvas with no bias to old rules... So where do you all think I should start?

Backgrounds, Professions and Weapons are obvious places to start. Equipment might be useful, but do you really need stats for a smart phone? Some of the tables could be changed so as not to have a fantasy theme (how many people nowadays are apprenticed to a wizard?). Medical rules might need updating, as the First Aid/Healing combo isn;t really up to scratch in the modern world.

 

[Gramvandle]

First of all... Thank you all for your excellent input. This is the sort of thing that I was hoping to get when I made my post. I must say I am surprised at how friendly and helpful this board is. (Of course my normal exp recently has been all 3.5 related)

I will try to do a longer post this weekend about the setting, as I think that it is important to know its not just a run-n-gun setting where guns are the only answer...at least I hope not. At its most basic it is a modern/horror setting with lots of factions, beasties, and intrique between all the different groups. It is based, for the most part, on the normal human angle of being the hunters, hunted by things they dont understand. (yes I know this precept isnt totally original, but hopefully the final setting will be interesting enough :shock: )

I am very interested in getting to work on all of this after this gaming this weekend. The only thing that I am dreading is the part many of you have brought up...the cinematic/fun aspects of firearm combat. I am still up in the air as to how I am going to handle that, but it will be more character-centric when it comes to battles, as opposed to masses on either side filling a field with lead.

Thanks again for the help and I look forward to sharing more with you as it progresses.

CHris

 

[jux]

There is a RPG game of modern warfare in OpenQuest system called The Company. It think it is not released yet.

 

[alex_greene]

Oh. Something I should point out - a Games Master, narrator sort of thing.

Situations in the modern world can go from nought to bloodbath in a heartbeat. The approaching whoosh of a mortar dropping out of the sky; the screech of a car rounding a corner too fast with some goons leaning out of the windows bearing automatic weapons; an IED triggered by remote control goes up; a quiet street full of people turns into Sniper Alley; a bus passenger opens up his heavy coat revealing a bomb vest. Screaming some invective against some faction or another, he pushes down the plunger ...

As a Games Master, you have an obligation to your players. Give them a warning first.

- Even if your characters don't hear the thump of the mortar being fired, an NPC beside them does and hollers "Incoming!"

- As the drive-by rounds the corner, the person the characters are talking with looks over their shoulder and goes "What the hell?"

- An overeager NPC decides to seize the initiative and edges forward with his hummer, breaking formation despite the CO's repeated warnings to get back into his spot, and becomes the unfortunate casualty of the first IED in the area;

- You have a handy NPC, perhaps someone the character is chatting up and flirting with while in the market, when the first sniper round takes her out right before the character's eyes. It would have been the character, but a seagull flew into the line of sight, distracting the sniper for that split second for the round to pass harmlessly through the space where the character's head would have been;

- The douchebag with the bomb vest got onto the bus before the characters, and the driver declared the buss full and closed the door on them.

Just some tricks I learned from running World of Darkness: Dogs of War to keep the characters from getting TPK'd in the first combat round. I don't like player characters getting entirely caught with their britches down, even though in the modern setting that happens all the time.