A generic HP system for Runequest?

[Rzach]

After years of D20 games my gaming group has decided to move to new systems for a while. I own the RuneQuest main rule book and the RuneQuest Companion and my group decided to use RuneQuest as the first new game we play.

There is only one problem. Most of my group hate the damage system and want something closer to the D&D hit point system. While I have ran and played other games with low hp, like WFRP, most of my group don't like systems that are lethal or to realistic.

I am looking for a less lethal HP system for RuneQuest. Preferably one that scales up over the course of their carreer and allows the players to survive around three rounds of combat on average before wounds occur although a little bit of variance in how long characters can survive would be okay.

Hopefully the players will eventually be comfortable with the normal combat system. I guess the system would have to work for monsters and npc's as well.

Thank you for your time,
Rzach

 

[howardfanatic]

BRP has an easy solution. CON + SIZ equals Hit Points and let every bad guy except hardcore baddasses have (CON + SIZ)/2. That copies D&D very closely and offers twice the HP's.

If that is still too deadly, incorporate a Toughness Stat, ala Warhammer. It represents the body's natural defenses and ability to absorb damage. Make it equal to, say, CON + SIZ divided by 10. Reduce every hit taken by this amount.

If you don't like that, try dying at -HP's equal to HP's, with the character conked out at 0 HP's.

In addition, you could also set up Major Wounds (equal to CON). If the character takes that amount of damage in one hit, he takes a major wound. Make your own Crit Table or use the one in the BRP rulebook. If you can't afford the BRP book, get the Elric! game (it sells for about $5 on Amazon, including shipping).

I loves me some house rulez.

 

[Deleriad]

After years of D20 games my gaming group has decided to move to new systems for a while. I own the RuneQuest main rule book and the RuneQuest Companion and my group decided to use RuneQuest as the first new game we play.

There is only one problem. Most of my group hate the damage system and want something closer to the D&D hit point system. While I have ran and played other games with low hp, like WFRP, most of my group don't like systems that are lethal or to realistic.

I am looking for a less lethal HP system for RuneQuest. Preferably one that scales up over the course of their carreer and allows the players to survive around three rounds of combat on average before wounds occur although a little bit of variance in how long characters can survive would be okay.

Hopefully the players will eventually be comfortable with the normal combat system. I guess the system would have to work for monsters and npc's as well.

Thank you for your time,
Rzach

Just to check, your players do realise that there are no general hit point in RQ? This means, basically, that unless your players are facing high damage monsters that a location usually needs to receive two hits before it is disabled and, given that locations are randomly chosen, it can take a lot of hits before a location gets damaged twice. Basically, the system is a lot less lethal than it looks.

I would suggest if you haven't already that you run a trial combat with the PCs matched up one-to-one against a random assortment of creatures.

If they are still balking, then a couple of different options are:
Give PCs a soak value equal to their resilience skill/5. E.g. if their resilience is 43 then they have 8 soak points. When they take damage they lose soak points first. Once those have gone then they are into real Hit Points. You can give big boss NPCs soak points too.

Alternately allow players to spend a Hero Point each time their character would take a serious wound to reduce it to a minor wound instead. You may want to limit this to a maximum number of times per session as it can make PCs nigh on unkillable once they get to a critical mass of Hero Points.

The second option is more in keeping with how MRQ currently works.

 

[Ssendam]

I second the "hero points" style of adjustment to the rules. You can form your own style of rules how to use them, possible to increase an die roll up or down a notch, (success to a critical, fail to a success etc.).

Personally I wouldn't tinker too much with the locational damage, it makes combat very descriptive which tends to add to roleplaying as players deal with injuries, i.e. "climbing down there might be tricky with your gammy leg".

Just my 2p.

 

[rabindranath72]

I literally HATE the hit locations, and I have been using hit points (like in Pendragon) of CON+SIZ, plus hero points. It works marvellously well.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Deleriad is absolutely right. MRQ is the less lethal of all D100 based systems. Ever. The problem is in your players' eyes, not in the system.

Let them become familiar with how it's played and they'll like it. Once they understand they can actually survive much more than the first three rounds of combat unharmed because they parry, they'll see the light. It's skill growing up that makes you invincible here, not hit points.

Hero Points are a good way to survive, too.

 

[Da Boss]

After years of D20 games my gaming group has decided to move to new systems for a while. I own the RuneQuest main rule book and the RuneQuest Companion and my group decided to use RuneQuest as the first new game we play.

There is only one problem. Most of my group hate the damage system and want something closer to the D&D hit point system. While I have ran and played other games with low hp, like WFRP, most of my group don't like systems that are lethal or to realistic.

I am looking for a less lethal HP system for RuneQuest. Preferably one that scales up over the course of their carreer and allows the players to survive around three rounds of combat on average before wounds occur although a little bit of variance in how long characters can survive would be okay.

Hopefully the players will eventually be comfortable with the normal combat system. I guess the system would have to work for monsters and npc's as well.

Thank you for your time,
Rzach

I am presently using my own version for my Stormbringer campaign which is pretty cinematic...and we all seem to be enjoying

Hit points = CON + 1 per pt of Siz over 12 (or - per pt under 9), no hit location HPs

Combatants strike in DEX order, which can be modified by the type of attack being carried out.

Multiple Attacks – You may attempt additional attacks in a round, but these will be a cumulative -25%. If your modified skill falls below 1% you may no longer attack this round.

Draw Weapon – temp subtract 5 from his or her DEX (unless he or she has 90% or more in appropriate weapon skill in which case it is free)

Parry or Dodge – May do one or the other in one round, each additional use is at – 20%, if your modified skill falls below 1% you may no longer dodge or parry this round.

Fight Defensively – Forgoes any offensive actions, each additional use of Parry or Dodge is at -10%,

Critical strike: 10% or less of the skill, double damage, armour does not protect, it may be parried but the parrying object is then broken, including Demon weapons – unless it makes a CONx1 roll. A Critical dodge will also negate the attack. Critical Parries break the attacking weapon as above – if both attack and parry are critical both are destroyed.

Special Rules

Aiming
May spend time aiming, each -5 DEX temporarily sacrificed spent gives +10% to chance to hit (Max +30%).

Fumbles
A roll of 100 is always a fumble, if the skill is less than 50 a roll of 99 is also a fumble, if less than 25 a roll or 96+.

Major Wound
If a character takes half or more of their total initial hit points in one blow they suffer a major wound – roll on the appropriate table. They may only fight on before collapsing for their remaining hit points in rounds due to shock and blood loss.

Shields versus Missiles
Against arrows or other similar weapons – shields have the following modified chance to stop the attack
Small/half: ½ Parry, Full shield: Parry-15% Large Shield Parry: +10%

Weapon Length
Long vs Long – as normal Long vs Small or Medium -Long attacks first

Weapon Mastery
Anyone with 90% in BOTH attack and parry is considered a Master in that weapon. They may train other characters and can turn a successful parry into an attack – a riposte (roll to hit as normal but can not be parried by attacker). They do not count as an attack but do suffer a cumulative –20% chance for each successive riposte attack.

A 1HD weapon may be used 2HD and is adjusted as follows: +4 damage, -10% to Attack, -20 to parry,

A 2HD weapon may be used 1HD if your STR is half again the requirement. -10% to Attack, -20 to Parry,

Armour protects with random amount - so leather is D6 - the score gives a good idea of where you hit and helps with the description of the blows.

Other modsare
No maximum number for stats
Skills are divided in sub groups - Agility, Manipulation etc which have a modifier based on several stats.
Experience is
(skills) roll D100 (plus your Skill group mod) over present skill - if made - add D10%
(stats) roll 2D6 - result of a 7 = +1, a 2 = -1.

Everyone gets Drama Points (knicked from Buffy) - each one can be used to :
get a re-roll (once per action)
"I think I am alright" - regain half the hit points taken in any one hit etc
"plot twist" - once per game session come up with a "cool idea" and let it go.
anything else that seems good at the time.
Players start with 10 and gain them back when I feel they have earned one.

 

[Halfbat]

I have to admit I'm very surprised to hear someone considers MRQ too lethal (as has been said above). The spread of hits over a body, minus armour, minus the chance of parrying/dodging, means that I've normally found the opposite - it's too forgiving. IIRC, the CA/Action penalties for getting a serious wound are unspecified, so a character could keep on fighting even when taking a potentially mortal wound to the head*.




* That's another house rule, perhaps, though: lose CA's as double major when taking a serious.

 

[Deleriad]

I have to admit I'm very surprised to hear someone considers MRQ too lethal (as has been said above). The spread of hits over a body, minus armour, minus the chance of parrying/dodging, means that I've normally found the opposite - it's too forgiving. IIRC, the CA/Action penalties for getting a serious wound are unspecified, so a character could keep on fighting even when taking a potentially mortal wound to the head*.

I thought serious wound was losing 1D3+1 Combat Actions? Pretty sure it's in the main rulebook.

Major wounds are incapacitating - according to GM's Handbook - which means any major wound prevents you from continuing.

I must admit that I have been using a house rule of criticals doing double damage because the basic rules seem a little too forgiving to me. However it does make combat a bit swingy so I am not entirely happy with it.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

After years of playing cricket, we have decided to switch to soccer. However my team hate the "kicking the ball into the net" method of scoring, and don't want to give up using the bat. Can anyone help with some suitable rules?

 

[Rzach]

After years of playing cricket, we have decided to switch to soccer. However my team hate the "kicking the ball into the net" method of scoring, and don't want to give up using the bat. Can anyone help with some suitable rules?

My group is tired of d20 mechanics. How the saves, attacks, and leveling up work. They don't hate the HP system.

The problem is they want a heroic feel to their characters. The game seems to lethal to them even if it isn't really that bad. They won't play a game that they feel would result in lots of player deaths. So there is a need for a change to the HP system. At least for a little while.

I like the con+size idea. That really doesn't seem that powerful and would still keep a sense of danger in combat. Actually I like most of the ideas presented here.

Hopefully my players will get over their fear of the normal system and give it a try. Once they see how parries work they will probably love the game. Until then though I will be using a generic HP system.

Thanks for your time,
Rzach

 

[Deleriad]

I like the con+size idea. That really doesn't seem that powerful and would still keep a sense of danger in combat. Actually I like most of the ideas presented here.
...
Rzach

As long as you realise that you have to use that system instead of locations - they don't go together.

There is also a potential for all but unkillable characters. E.g. if you have 4 APs of armour, 28 Hit Points and you are facing characters doing 1D6 damage with 50% attack then it'll take about 130 undefended attacks before a character dies. After a little while players might start to feel that the system actually lacks danger.

If you do go with generic hit points I would suggest that you port over bloodied from D&D - a character is bloodied when his remaining HPs are less than his CON. When a character becomes bloodied he must make a resilience test of lose his next d3+1 combat actions.

Also, if a character ever takes more than his SIZ in damage from a single attack he has received a major wound: must make a resilience test to avoid passing out. If the resilience test is a success then the character loses their next d3+1 combat actions as above.

Finally, you may want to have critical attacks do double damage rather than maximum damage.

If you add those rules in you should still have survivable combat but not the kind of combat where it becomes nigh on impossible to die.

 

[AKAmra]

After years of playing cricket, we have decided to switch to soccer. However my team hate the "kicking the ball into the net" method of scoring, and don't want to give up using the bat. Can anyone help with some suitable rules?

My group is tired of d20 mechanics. How the saves, attacks, and leveling up work. They don't hate the HP system.

The problem is they want a heroic feel to their characters. The game seems to lethal to them even if it isn't really that bad. They won't play a game that they feel would result in lots of player deaths. So there is a need for a change to the HP system. At least for a little while.

I like the con+size idea. That really doesn't seem that powerful and would still keep a sense of danger in combat. Actually I like most of the ideas presented here.

Hopefully my players will get over their fear of the normal system and give it a try. Once they see how parries work they will probably love the game. Until then though I will be using a generic HP system.

Thanks for your time,
Rzach

Con+Siz hit points is a perfectly valid option for MRQ/BRP games, if you think that might work for you and your players, then go for it. As you get more comfortable with the system you can adjust it to taste

You may want to consider getting the Chaosium BRP book, since general hit points is the default and it has other options you can use with it, like Major Wounds, etc.

Is that cricket, soccer thing spam or just thread capping?

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Is that cricket, soccer thing spam or just thread capping?

I believe it was an attempt at sarcasm

 

[soltakss]

As long as you realise that you have to use that system instead of locations - they don't go together.

Yes they do. You just have CON+SIZ in hit points and work out your locational hit points accordingly. It just means you have more hit points in each location.

There is also a potential for all but unkillable characters. E.g. if you have 4 APs of armour, 28 Hit Points and you are facing characters doing 1D6 damage with 50% attack then it'll take about 130 undefended attacks before a character dies. After a little while players might start to feel that the system actually lacks danger.

If you are not using hit locations. If you use hit locations then a good hit can still disable you, but it needs to be a better hit.

Finally, you may want to have critical attacks do double damage rather than maximum damage.

So, to counter the extra hit points you need to do extra damage. That defeats the point, surely?

If you add those rules in you should still have survivable combat but not the kind of combat where it becomes nigh on impossible to die.

Using CON+SIZ and hit locations means that combat is survivable but still potentially dangerous without a lot of add-on rules.

 

[Deleriad]

As long as you realise that you have to use that system instead of locations - they don't go together.

Yes they do. You just have CON+SIZ in hit points and work out your locational hit points accordingly. It just means you have more hit points in each location.

Unless I'm completely missing the point that's how MRQ works; for each 5 points of CON+SIZ you have 1 Hit Point in each location.

Are you suggesting that you have a number of hit points in each location equal to CON+SIZ?

 

[Cleombrotus]

So your players are essentially saying "we don't want our characters to die?" I think that's a good thing.

I also think it's the likelihood of death that creates "heroic" characters - not statistical unlikelihood. Of course that's just a question of gaming style and philosophy.

Why not run adventures where the characters are shopkeepers or have lots of laundry to do? They can then have normal hit points and needn't worry about violent death because their city is surrounded by walls and the town watch will be there to bail them out.

Surely the 'danger' is the point? I would congratulate your players for making a real-world connection between fear and fighting. In every combat you take your life in your hands, and anyone can die randomly. It should be intimidating.

If they don't like that then I don't think they're as bored of d20 as they think they are...

 

[soltakss]

Unless I'm completely missing the point that's how MRQ works; for each 5 points of CON+SIZ you have 1 Hit Point in each location.


Blast! I was thinking in terms of older versions of RQ and BRP. There was a BRP discussion about a similar thing, I think, and it was suggested that using SIZ+CON rather than (SIZ+CON)/2 helped.

I'm losing track - there are too many systems that are too similar.

Are you suggesting that you have a number of hit points in each location equal to CON+SIZ?

Not at all. That would be too powerful.

Please ignore all my posts in this thread, including this one. :roll:

 

[Deleriad]

Please ignore all my posts in this thread, including this one. :roll:

Oh no. It's Kirk and a computer time. Does not compute. Cannot ignore instruction to ignore.

*puff of smoke in logic circuits and computer is no more...*

 

[howardfanatic]

The CON+SIZ rule, the bad guys are wimpier rule, and the major wound rule are all in the BRP book. It works well, especially if the occasional bad guy is not so wimpy. Kinda like a Zelda video game- all fun and games till Ganon whups up on yo bizass.
Onc again, I cannot recommend it often enough that every MRQ owner buy the BRP book. They work best when they work together! BRP is like one huge book of extra options for all of Chaosium's games and the excellent MRQ system!