A bit disappointed about [Sword Worlds]

Dunia

Banded Mongoose
Now I fully understand that not every one can love every thing and it is hard to have a company that publishes books for various roleplaying games and satisfy all customers. But there are a few things that I feel that I must be allowed to say here.

I just bought the Sword Worlds book and I must say that with all due respect to Mr Steele who wrote it, this book really feels as it is among the worst Traveller Books I have ever read. First I should point out that as a follower of what you call the Old Norse religion, it is quite sad to see how my religion is butchered, but not to be rude, though I must say that most Americans have a very strange picture about vikings at the same time that they are very intrigued by them, so i am not surprised (it seems that the best way to make an American drool is to point out somethings about vikings - like for the example that i can trace my family back to that age and I know for a fact that my ancestors lived in Birka (the ''capital'' of Sweden at the time of the Viking Era) and that I have a sword from that time over my bed that has been in my family for almost 1100 years).
I just do not understand why the Sword Worlders who seem to have such a focus on the Icelandic/Norse way of life at the same time names everything in German (or a bastardization of the language) and not uses traditional Scandinavian names, titles and phrases. Germany was never that into the Norse ways until the raise of the Nazi-government in German in the early 1930's - before that Germany was either an area of rival tribes that traded and/or waged conflict with various Scandinavian (viking) groups before parts of Germany came to be a christian nation.

But this is not the worst thing of the Sword Worlds book, what I seriously dislike about it is that it feels as if Mr Steele has used copy/paste from the GURPS Sword Worlds which can be felt when one see references to the Fifth Frontier War (page 23) and as if the setting in this book is post 1120 Imperial Calender (page 25) as well as references to the Border Worlds (page 31) which according to OTU canon in 1111 - years after the Fifth Frontier War. Then comes the big shock when you learn that this book is set in 1105 (page 39).

So in my eyes, this book feels as if it was made through extensive copy/paste from the GURPS book with the same name and it also feels as if the writer has very little knowledge about the setting of the Third Imperium and its timeline. Another things that bums me out is that this should had been easily spotted if someone with some knowledge of Traveller/Third Imperium had proofread it before sending it to the printers.

But not all things in this are bad, I enjoy the history and character creation and I hope that this can be seen as constructive criticism and just not whining. Mr Steele appears to be a good writer and he has nice ideas and thoughts that I like to put into my Traveller campaigns, but he needs some better knowledge base /aid with knowing what is what and when is when in the setting.

Thank you.
Dunia
 
It's true that we Americans have a "thing" for Vikings. Or at least the others I know do. I think it's a cultural remnant of the Danish occupation of England combined with having quite a few Scandinavian immigrants. Plus, the romantic idea of the far-travelling Viking represents the kind of freedom, wanderlust and adventurism that resonates within our own culture. Sort of like an early Medieval Cowboy. The truth in both cases is completely overshadowed by the mythic ideal, and if there's one thing we Americans like, it's mythic ideals.

And horned helmets. Thanks a lot, Wagner. Spangenhelms are cool too, dang it. :)

[I'm of course only speaking for myself and acquaintances. Maybe it's only Texans who like Vikings? :)]

Anyway, sorry to hear about the Sword Worlds. But it is worth mentioning that Sword Worlders are 5,000 years past the time of the heyday of the Norse, and it's more than likely that they have as little idea what *real* Norse were like as we do what *real* Sumerians were like.

I don't know if I'm giving the author too much credit though; it may not have been his intent to paint the Sword Worlders as clinging to a past that is really their own fabrication rather than a true cultural legacy.
 
Still I object more to the author's way of writing as it appears that he has just copied the GURPS book.
 
There were earlier comments in "Sword Worlds AWOL" thread.

http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=48459

Compared to the other "Alien" modules, the one on the Sword Worlds is disappointing.

Egil
 
Dunia said:
I just bought the Sword Worlds book and I must say that with all due respect to Mr Steele who wrote it, this book really feels as it is among the worst Traveller Books I have ever read. First I should point out that as a follower of what you call the Old Norse religion, it is quite sad to see how my religion is butchered, but not to be rude, though I must say that most Americans have a very strange picture about vikings...

Mr. Steele is not responsible for Aesirism. He is merely sticking to what I and my fellow authors established in previously published material, i.e. GT: Sword Worlds. It's not Americans having a strange picture about vikings, it's (supposed to be) people living 3000 years from now having a strange picture about vikings. Aesirism is not Asetro. It never was supposed to be. It's an entirely new religion drawing inspitration from Old Norse material. It is deliberately not the same as the present-day religion -- we didn't want to risk offending anyone's actual beliefs.

I just do not understand why the Sword Worlders who seem to have such a focus on the Icelandic/Norse way of life at the same time names everything in German (or a bastardization of the language) and not uses traditional Scandinavian names, titles and phrases.

That's because the language was established around -400 and Aesirism 800 years later. And it's not everything that is in German. Sagamaal is derived from a reconstructed Icelandic with a leavening of other Scandinavian languages, German, and even a bit of Vilani. Names, especially, are predominantly Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian but with some names from every other part of Terra (and a few Vilani names too). There is a historical character named Abdul Mehmedsson Tyrk that illustrates this.

Germany was never that into the Norse ways until the raise of the Nazi-government in German in the early 1930's - before that Germany was either an area of rival tribes that traded and/or waged conflict with various Scandinavian (viking) groups before parts of Germany came to be a christian nation.

German contributed to Sword World culture because one of the smaller army units carried by the Gram was from the German province of Terra. Aesirism arose on worlds settled directly from Gram.


Hans
 
JRoss said:
That's a pretty cool response.

Well, Hans Ranckehas had 3 months to think about it, so it should be pretty cool. 8)

However, I continue to be a bit disappointed about Sword Worlds, but for different reasons;

1. Some very odd uses of the English language (e.g. "masochism" has been used when "machismo" appears to have been intended).
2. The issue about the effect of the 5FW on the SW is not made clear, so it is not clear when the book is referreing to 1105 or 1115 or later, or earlier.
3. A chronological table would help the reader, and probably the author as well.
4. The tech level available, esp for weapons, seems very odd, most Sword Worlds are TL10 or 11, and there are a number of industial worlds, but the book suggests that much of the available military tech is only TL9, which seems unlikely in such a militarized society (which, apparently, has significantly higher tech in some other areas), I could see SW military tech being marginally higher than their overall figure, but not lower. This then has a knock-on to the space craft designs, which are rather weak and wouldn't offer much of a fight to Darrian or Imperial vessels of the same size.
5. More ideas about the SW fleets would have been useful (along the lines of that in the Darrians book).
6. I would like to have seen more information about the lost Sword Worlds, e.g. Asgard, Margesi and Vilis.

Overall, Sword Worlds compares badly to Aslan, Vargr, Darrians, Zhodani or Solomani. How much of this is because of cutting and pasting from other books, I don't know (not having any other Sword World Books), but it certainly has the air of an unfinished article.

Any thoughts, Hans?

Egil
 
Dunia said:
Germany was never that into the Norse ways until the raise of the Nazi-government in German in the early 1930's ...
The peak of Germany's "Viking Fever" actually was during the reign
of Kaiser Wilhelm II, who was a real "Vikings fan", visited Scandina-
via quite often and even wrote (utterly terrible) "Viking poems". :)

What he thought to know about Vikings was as romantic as it was
wrong, not much different from Wagner's ideas about the Norse -
it seems every age invents its own distorted image of the Vikings.

At the time of the Sword Worlds the historical reality is overshado-
wed by millenia of such distorted images, and like previous cultures
the Sword Worlders will pick and choose from them to design their
own favourite "true Vikings", which once more will be closer to a pa-
rody than to the historical reality.
 
Egil Skallagrimsson said:
JRoss said:
That's a pretty cool response.

Well, Hans Ranckehas had 3 months to think about it, so it should be pretty cool. 8)

Actually, for some reason I no longer recall, I got out of the habit of visiting these boards some six months ago. I've only just returned (hence the recent spate of replies to multiple threads), so I only spent a few minutes to think about it. :wink:

Overall, Sword Worlds compares badly to Aslan, Vargr, Darrians, Zhodani or Solomani. How much of this is because of cutting and pasting from other books, I don't know (not having any other Sword World Books), but it certainly has the air of an unfinished article.

Any thoughts, Hans?

As the co-author of what some people may consider a competing product, I don't feel comfortable commenting in detail on the merits of this version.

I don't see it that way myself, BTW. I'm extremely pleased that Mongoose chose to consider GT:Sword Worlds canon for their own book, since that means that my efforts will not quietly disappear down a black hole. Mr. Steele introduced a lot of new stuff too, so it's not just a cut and paste job. (And he left out some things too, so you can still benefit from buying GT:SW ) :)

I suppose it would be carrying discretion too far not to acknowledge that the historical information from GT:SW ought to have been backdated to 1105 (and theoretically transposed from the GTU to the OTU too, but since 1105 is before the Change Point, the two universes are (at least conceptually) identical at that point). But the fact that Mongoose has withdrawn the book from sale shows that they agree and are presumably working on it. Personally I'm willing to help out all I can with correcting that part, and Don knows that. I presume that sheduling conflicts of some sort has delayed work on correcting the problems.


Hans
 
Hans Rancke said:
Egil Skallagrimsson said:
JRoss said:
That's a pretty cool response.

Well, Hans Ranckehas had 3 months to think about it, so it should be pretty cool. 8)

Actually, for some reason I no longer recall, I got out of the habit of visiting these boards some six months ago. I've only just returned (hence the recent spate of replies to multiple threads), so I only spent a few minutes to think about it. :wink:

Overall, Sword Worlds compares badly to Aslan, Vargr, Darrians, Zhodani or Solomani. How much of this is because of cutting and pasting from other books, I don't know (not having any other Sword World Books), but it certainly has the air of an unfinished article.

Any thoughts, Hans?

As the co-author of what some people may consider a competing product, I don't feel comfortable commenting in detail on the merits of this version.

I don't see it that way myself, BTW. I'm extremely pleased that Mongoose chose to consider GT:Sword Worlds canon for their own book, since that means that my efforts will not quietly disappear down a black hole. Mr. Steele introduced a lot of new stuff too, so it's not just a cut and paste job. (And he left out some things too, so you can still benefit from buying GT:SW ) :)

I suppose it would be carrying discretion too far not to acknowledge that the historical information from GT:SW ought to have been backdated to 1105 (and theoretically transposed from the GTU to the OTU too, but since 1105 is before the Change Point, the two universes are (at least conceptually) identical at that point). But the fact that Mongoose has withdrawn the book from sale shows that they agree and are presumably working on it. Personally I'm willing to help out all I can with correcting that part, and Don knows that. I presume that sheduling conflicts of some sort has delayed work on correcting the problems.


Hans

Thanks for your reply, I can understand your wish to be discrete in view of your book. As far as I am aware, the MgT SW is still available for sale, it is still listed in the mail order lists at the moment. Yes, it could do with an errata, but erratas are never going to make any money, so I suspect a SW errata will go the same way as the suggested in errata to a number of other recent MgT books.

To be honest, most problems I could work out, and amend on my copy, and different views about somethings, e.g. SW weapon tech level, are easy to solve on a MTU basis, its just annoying that MgT SW wasn't properly checked before printing, and that it detracts from the otherwise high standard of the alien modules (though, sadly, is in step with some other MgT books).

Looks like I will have to buy the GT:SW as well. 8)

Egil
 
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