[2nd Ed] Freight Rates

[Dalekdad]

Are the freight costs listed on p 207 of the new 2nd edition corebook per ton, per parsec? Maybe its spelled out somewhere, but I can't quite see where.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The costs in the table at the top of p207 is what one Jump of the given length in parsecs costs, I think.

So to ship something 2 parsecs, you can either jump it twice one parsed at a time, so Cr 2 * 1000 / dT, or you can jump it once for Cr 1600 / dT.

 

[FentonGib]

Heyas

I need to enquire the same as the OP... is the costs listed in the p207 Passage and Freight costs per ton or per cargo?

If it's a flat fee for the cargo (like the mail cannisters) then it makes no sense for players with a smaller ship to take major cargo (1Dx10 tons of freight) over incidental (1D) when one will use 10-100 tons of space for cargo, and the other 1-6 tons, and both pay exactly the same! And it's harder to find major cargo over minor cargo, which would make it harder to find cargo, that uses more space for the same amount.

I assume it's per ton, as that way Cr per tonnage is the same, and the benefit of major cargo is to guaranee more cargo space usage (and thus income) per job. I know the last edition specifies that it's per ton (though pricing for passengers and freight are different) but I cannot find the same note on 2e.

Also... Are the costs for Jump-6 correct? They seem to be 10x higher than that of Jump-5. I can appreciate Jump-6 is rare and you're paying a premium, but the price hike from J5 to J6 is astronomical compared to the increased in previous parsecs travelled.

Please advise? Thanks.

 

[PsiTraveller]

The price listed is per ton, so a 25 ton minor lot moving 2 Parsecs in one jump would earn a J2 ship 40 000 Credits. 25 tons * 1600 Credits per ton/J2 Jump.
Looking through the 1st edition intro paragraph it says

Characters not wishing to risk speculative trade can go for the
safer option of shipping freight. Freight shipments pay Cr. 1,000
per ton for shipping a ton for one parsec, +200 Cr. per additional
parsec. Freight lots must be transported in their entirety, and come
in three sizes:
• Major cargos are composed of 1d6 10 tons of freight.
• Minor cargos are composed of 1d6 5 tons of freight.
• Incidental cargos are composed of 1d6 tons of freight.

2nd edition
Travellers not wishing to risk speculative trade can go for
the safer option of shipping freight. Freight shipments pay a
fixed rate as shown on the Passage and Freight table.
Freight lots must be transported in their entirety, and
come in three sizes.
• Major Cargo lots are composed of 1D x 10 tons of
freight.
• Minor Cargo lots are composed of 1D x 5 tons of
freight.
• Incidental Cargo lots are composed of 1D tons of freight.

The qualifier sentence of price per ton is not in the 2nd edition.

 

[FentonGib]

That was my conclusion too. The pricing is different but the core basis is much the same. 1e states it's per ton, but 2e doesn't have the qualifying statement.

So unless told otherwise, I'll keep my assumption and treat it as Cr per ton of freight.

Thanks.

 

[PsiTraveller]

They talked about it on the boards. They increased the price per ton to make shipping freight pay enough for a ship to be financially viable. Tramp trading is an important part of Traveller, always has been. The problem with the old pricing is that it never paid enough to actually support a ship.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Also... Are the costs for Jump-6 correct? They seem to be 10x higher than that of Jump-5. I can appreciate Jump-6 is rare and you're paying a premium, but the price hike from J5 to J6 is astronomical compared to the increased in previous parsecs travelled.

A high jump ship has much less payload than a low jump ship, so for a given payload a high jump ship is much bigger and much, much more expensive.

Let's illustrate with a cheap budget ship with 100 dT payload:
At J-1, M-1 it will be 175 dT and cost MCr 30.
At J-2 220 dT and MCr 43.
At J-3 280 dT and MCr 64.
At J-4 360 dT and MCr 96
At J-5 550 dT and MCr 171.
At J-6 1240 dT and MCr 421.

OK, the J-6 ship is only 2.5 times as expensive as a J-5 ship, but gets paid almost 10 times more. I would call that an opportunity!

So to answer your question: No, the J-6 prices are probably too high.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

If we instead take the payload of a 200 dT ship:
J-1 133 dT for a cost of MCr 34 = 0,26 MCr / dT
J-2 107 dT for MCr 41 = 0,38 MCr / dT
J-3 80 dT for MCr 49 = 0,61 MCr /dT
J-4 51 dT for MCr 60 = 1,18 MCr / dT
J-5 24 dT for MCr 77 = 3,21 MCr / dT
J-6 0 dT for MCr 99 = -,-- MCr / dT
It perhaps makes more sense.

Still does not explain the big price hike for J-4, but small surcharge for J-5.

At a guess J-4 was made more attractive, since Imperial trade lanes are supposed to be J-4?

 

[phavoc]

The issue with the argument is that tramp freighters should NOT be used as the bellwether to determine freight prices. By their definiton they aren't the shups moving the bulk of the cargo in the Inperium. What they are is basically long haul truckers hauling a single trailer.

The true cargo is moved by the larger ships, or in current vernacular the railroads and cargo vessels of today. A free trader operates on the edge thus their cargo rates shouldn't be anywhere near what the long haulers who operate on full efficiency do.

If you look back into the heyday of the passenger liners, you found cargonships that "zipped" along at 10 to 14 knots, bit that was enough. Passenger liners where the ones that crossed the oceans at 20 to 30 knots.

We still don't have a good model of the true movement of people and cargo in the Traveller universe. But players don't operate larger vessels like that, so the rules and model is skewed toward adventure class vessels.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The issue with the argument is that tramp freighters should NOT be used as the bellwether to determine freight prices.

Agreed, but the freight prices in the Trade chapter are specifically for Tramp freighters and adventurers.

 

[phavoc]

The issue with the argument is that tramp freighters should NOT be used as the bellwether to determine freight prices.

Agreed, but the freight prices in the Trade chapter are specifically for Tramp freighters and adventurers.

The problem is that they seem awfully high. Unless you assume tramp freighters are picking up cargo that is to be delivered somewhere the main lines don't travel, ergo it's being given a premium delivery bonus. Or it's time sensitive - though that's an iffy question because most adventure class ships don't have very long jump legs, so delivery time is actually longer.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The problem is that they seem awfully high.

Yes, if the players get their hands on a J-6 ship they will make a fortune.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Gurps Far Trader has a couple of pages about how the tramp trade market is for folks who failed to book early and secure their space on a ship. There is a deadline on the destination planet and the cargo has to get there. (pages 21 -24)

There is also an explanation as to why higher Jump ships are not always cheaper or more efficient. Basically it is because they do not always get to Jump their full distance. An example of a 10 parsec trip is 5 J2 for a J2 ship and 4 Jumps for the J3. The ship arrives a week early, but at 25% higher cost.

For the J6 market, take a 200 ton Far Trader and redesign it to have 35 tons of Jump Engine and a computer with 30 bandwidth for the J6 software.

The challenge is that the 200 ton ship needs 120 tons of Jump Fuel. The simple solution to that is to get a Drop Tank. The cargo area could be increased to about 70 tons of cargo. This would bring in 6 million in income per jump, so you could afford to buy the 3 million credit drop tank even if it did not survive the jump.

Without a Drop tank you have problems, There is enough space for 2 cabins and 7 tons of cargo and 122 tons of fuel. This would make money as long as there was a cargo twice a month that was worth 86 000 Credits per ton to ship. OR you add in a High Stateroom for 6 tons and shuttle the obscenely rich between systems for 470 000 a throw.