2nd Ed EA viable ?

[LordClammy]

hey guys,

I have read through the posts and havent seen much in the way of a sit rep on the 2nd edition EA. we have been playing a few games lately at our club, and so far the EA has been hosed. both games were 5pt battle, and the ea player used the same crusade era list in both. the EA list was:

4 chronos
2 marathons
2 apollos

the first list he faced was the brakiri. I dont know what was in the list. but he was taken down without many losses on the brakiri side.

in the 2nd game he faced me. I was playing shadows, with:

1 war level shadow ship
6 scouts

at the end of the game, I had minimum damage on most of the ships, and had lost 1 scout. shields helped a lot, as did the stealth on the scouts. the shadow ship took out a 2 ships and helped on a third, but the majority of the damage came from my scouts.

we were just wondering if anyone else was having problems with the EA, and if any solutions were thought up. I was thinking that more smaller ships would help, but to what degree, I dont know. I would apreciate any advice. thanks.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

If I was the EA player I'd bin one Apollo and one Marathon for a Warlock, and probably the other Apollo for two raid ships. Not sure off-hand what you get at raid for Crusade EA, but at 5 battle you need more models on the table than that, and you need a Warlock. It kicks arse.

 

[Estalies]

you get hyperions explorers and dephi at raid in crusade.
I have also found that I'm getting my teeth kicked in as a crusade player unless i bring out the dirty cheese (lots of ini sinks and hyperions). The Crusade era ships of battle and higher (minus the all powerfull excalliber) are wastes of points for me, cause they get picked out and shot down asap. In 2e i've noticed that two ships of lower level more than often beat one of a level higher. But then my opponent plays only ISA...

 

[Lord David the Denied]

To be honest I don't like the Crusade fleet. You lose the nice low level ships and only gain the Cronos to replace them, and you only gain the Marathon and Apollo at battle level. I much prefer the 3rd age list.

 

[Estalies]

as much as i love the crusade look, you are so correct, you loose alot of punch in the fleet.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You can always add a few models to your collection and play both, there's a lot of cross-over with the 3rd age and Crusade lists...

 

[Estalies]

i went to the corp... nemesis is too pretty, and the black omegas make me drool with happiness

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Ha! Can't argue with that, the Omega-X is gorgeous. Not totally convinced the weapons fit reflects the show, but it's a nasty piece of work... 8)

 

[angelus2000]

Wasn't impressed with Crusade EA in 1e, still not impressed now. Big shiny ships with little in the way of support (Chronos aside), a paucity of fighters. Great individual ships, but leaves a lot to be desired in a overall fleet structure.

Tell him to play 3rd Age EA. With the exception of the now stinky-smells-like-limburger Nova, its born again HARD!! :lol:

 

[Tolwyn]

The Crusade Era Fleet is at least acceptable. I see the Cronos as the greatest weakness, because compared to other Skirmish ships especially the Demos and Vorchan the Crpons is extremly undergunned (the Ochlavita has the same weakness). A change to this ship/ships would be good

 

[Right Hand of God]

The Chronos performs a different fleet role than the Vorchan though, there is no comparison between the two. The Chronos has a better hull, better anti-fighter, better interceptors, and AD in every arc, the Vorchan may pack the better punch but the Chronos has greater survivability and does not face losing all its guns with one crit hit. The Hyperion Assault variant also has positive points against the Vorchan for similar reasons.

I agree that the Crusade era fleet lacks punch at the lower levels, maybe a weaker appollo at raid would help, or an advanced Nova. But judge them against their peers, The Minbari, the Drakh and the Centauri and they don't appear out of place.

 

[Tolwyn]

In games where I played the Cronos it lived longer than other skirmish ships, but it definitly lacks some punch.

 

[H]

The Crusade EA are a bit on the weak side, but not alarmingly so. the downgrading of the chronos for me was a big kick in the teeth, but it is still a decent little support ship, It just means i have to take old glass jaw at raid level!
However, fighters! how can anyone complain about these, the firebolt is a very nasty piece of work, and will cause most fleets a lot of trouble.

looking at the 5 battle fleet, what was he thinking, far too top heavy for sure, no wonder he's getting spanked! he needs to look at lower priority ships.

the fleet rundown(excluding fighters)

The hermes, old faithful. sure it cant have missile varients, but keep it back, keep it's fury escorting, and you have a mobile missile platform with 2 interceptors

the Myrmidon, never used, but a hull 6 patrol with a very respectable amount of dice, give it a whirl

Assault Hyperion, probably has restricted use to be honest, wouldn't pick one unless it was a planetary assault

Chronos, solid escort, all round fire with turreted railgun run them with overlapping firearcs, they are qute dureable, and cheap to boot

Hyperion, ole glass jaw. sure it blows up if you sniff in it's direction, but 4AD beam on a raid ship is very respectable! can be quite gross in squadrons

Delphi, one of the best scouts in the game, unlimited range scouting? you can sit this baby anywhere and still try for stealth reduction, or lock ons

Explorer, not to be ruled out, with the change in beam mechanics, this is now a solid raid level command choice, tons of damage, scout ability, and a wad of furies, it could surprise you

Marathon, lacking in the damage stakes, with high thresholds to boot, does pack some respectable firepower, with it's speed and maneuvreability can surprise people, but prey for a good crit on the beam!

Omega, as solid and venerable as ever, a tough cookie, with it's own fighter support

Apollo and Apollo assault thingy. ok, flimsy for sure, but great amounts of firepower unless you are up against a heavy interceptor fleet, combine an appollo with a delphi for excelent missile attacks!

the Poseidon depends if yo like fighters or not, but it has shedloads, tons of damage, and the command bonus is handy, and don't forget fleet carrier will keep your furies rolling...

Command Omega.. somewhat overshadowed by the new Warlock, it's still a mean old SOB, and 8 dice beam is backed up by a good spread of weapons, and the most important thing... it looks cool

Warlock. only just this side of broken, this ship is a monster, few war ships look to be on a par, the equally nearly broken G'Vrahn is one of the few.

 

[Right Hand of God]

That's a good assessment, however, having faced a squadron of 4 Warlocks recently, and having 4 G'Vrahn of my own I would have to say that both ships have been nudged slightly over the line for their level.

 

[Locutus9956]

Yep looking at the original list Id have to point at the two Marathons and two Apollos and think 'well.... theres your problem right there, guv'

The Marathon, whilst I personally like it is not a ship of the line its best used taking adavantage of its frankly disgusting speed to zip up the flank and then come back in and hit the enemy from behind their main fire arcs (or better yet jump it in behind them if the scenario allows). You still need other ships to anchor your fleet though so I wouldnt take more than 1.

Likewise, the Apollo. Its a support ship. Missiles are all well and good but again if you use up too much of your fleet on the bombardment ships youll find you dont have the damage soaking capacity.

Chronos are now much weaker than in 1st ed but I still like them. They WONT hold up for long though and are still frankly cannon fodder when targeted with beams (at least theyre cheaper cannon fodder now though....)

The patrol options, namely the Myrmidon and Hermes are both quite good little ships (the Myrmidon, despite my utter loathing of the miniature for its 'non-EAness' is one of the nastiest patrol ships in the whole game!) and crucially add initiative sinks allowing you to line up those all important boresights. (its not hull 6 as far as I know though Hiff and only has 1 interceptor, think youre mixing it up with the skirmsih level Chronos now!). It nonetheless mounts 14 attack dice. Thats a SHOCKING amount of firepower for a patrol ship so your oppoent will ignore it only at his peril! In fact thinking about it 2 of them have MORE damage potential than a Vorchan! (though theyre more fragile of course!).

Crusade EA now I think are still very viable but the thing is the fleet has been squeezed out towards the edges away from the middle, at Raid you dont have much choice (the Delphi I dont really count as its a niche role (though it does excel at said role) and the explorer isnt bad but your basically stuck with Hyperions and more Hyperions for raid. This isnt necessarily bad though as the venerable Hyperion is frankly an excellent ship. Fragile yes, but damn well armed!)

For 5 Point Battle Id say that the original fleet was woefully unvaried. EA fleets are at their best when you use a good mixture of ships:

Try this instead:

1 Warlock - It will draw alot of fire, but its a big boy, it can take it. And boy can it ever dish it out in return!
1 Marathon - Go up the flank or jump in behind the lines and then cry havoc and all that nonsense.... (alternately take 1 omega and have it hang back with the warlock blasting away and adding more fighters to the mix)
1 Hyperion, 1 Chronos, 2 Myrmidons or Hermes (Hermes in for more fighters and beam resilience, Myrmidons for more outright firepower)

Thats 4 points, for the final point, it depends on who your fighting:

vs a beam heavy, non stealth using opponent:
1 Hyperion, 1 Chronos, 2 Hermes

vs a stealth heavy opponent (also tend to be quite 'beamy...')(basically Shadows or Minbari) (Id also use this one as a 'general all round last point':
1 Delphi, 1 Chronos, 2 Hermes

lastly vs a non beam heavy opponent:
3 Chronos, 2 Myrmidons

In general, overall the most likely fleet Id field would be:

1 Warlock, 1 Marathon, 1 Hyperion, 1 Delphi, 2 Chronos, 2 Hermes, 2 Myrmidons, between them carrying 6 Aurora Starfury flights and 4 Thunderbolts (2 Tbolts on the Warlock, 2 on the Marathon)

A good mix of ships, masses of firepower spread all over the place, a big linchepin ship to hold the baseline and blast enemies with its big beam, and a decent amount of solid fighter supoort, and a scout that can function both as an extra, very hard to kill initiative sink and give lots of lovely rerolls to your non beam guns and invaluable vs stealth opponents.

The only other thing I will advise is this: Learn to use close blast doors. ALOT. Its the best thing EVER basically!

 

[H]

its not hull 6 as far as I know though Hiff and only has 1 interceptor, think youre mixing it up with the skirmsih level Chronos now!

my bad, thanks for the correction.

 

[Locutus9956]

as a sidenote, Towlyn, would you please trim down the avatar as its currly quite huge and skews all the text annoyingly

 

[angelus2000]

However, fighters! how can anyone complain about these, the firebolt is a very nasty piece of work, and will cause most fleets a lot of trouble.

Not saying the fighters are bad, but the majority of the crusade era specific ships like Delphi, apollo, etc. either don't have any fighters at all or fewer than theri older PL buddies like than the omega

 

[H]

However, fighters! how can anyone complain about these, the firebolt is a very nasty piece of work, and will cause most fleets a lot of trouble.

Not saying the fighters are bad, but the majority of the crusade era specific ships like Delphi, apollo, etc. either don't have any fighters at all or fewer than theri older PL buddies like than the omega

this is true, but they do also have the biggest carrier in the game well I suppose i may have to check the gaim stats now, ok, i THINK they have the biggest carrier in the game...

 

[Tolwyn]

That might be right :wink:

It hope my avatar is better now.