captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Jame Rowe said:
link ?
2d6 OGL Low Tech/Fantasy Equipment
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
link ?
Golan2072
Cosmic Mongoose
Here you go...captainjack23 said:
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
captainjack23 said:rust said:Thank you very much.captainjack23 said:
A link would indeed be helpful, my "search-fu" is not very good ...
I think this'll be it.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?p=240807&highlight=goetry#post240807
That's my first post on the subject in a very interesting thread. It's worth a read in addition to, or in despite of, my contributions.
Captain, for those of us COTI impaired, can you repost it here?
THANX
I have been working on some careers for this and have some basic description for 6 of them. These are the ones that you can be drafted into and I will eventually have 6 more that you will be able to select and if lucky be admitted to, as those 6 careers you will not be allowed a draft roll into. So this is what i have so far with just basic description no careers yet. For the Priest career I want to have some form of healing ability that will be granted by for lack of a better term Divine Power. I am thinking of basing it something like a Psionic Stat but calling it Faith maybe. So spending Faith points to heal others or yourself. I also want a Mage career and if i can work it out a ability called Arcane for using magic. But all that is still down the road so what do you think of these so far.
Merchant
Whether a travelling merchant or the operator of a city or town shop, the world is always looking for someone to sell things that are needed.
Priest
Whatever race you are from there are times when ones soul needs council on doing the right thing, and the sick will always need the aid of faith.
Rogue
In every society there are people that have things and people that don’t, in these places is where you find the rogues looking to redistribute the wealth from the rich to themselves.
Sailor
The worlds have oceans and on the oceans sail ships to travel and conquer the world you need these sailors to man these great vessels.
Soldier
The world is a violent place and to protect your city or to gain fortune army’s are needed and solders fill the ranks. Whether a lone warrior or a member of a great army this is where you start.
Wanderer
There are those that don’t fit in anywhere else, they have a wonder lust that no one place can ever quench, travelling the world these people learn and help others whether for knowledge, or even wealth. Some will just not stay put in one place for long.
Merchant
Whether a travelling merchant or the operator of a city or town shop, the world is always looking for someone to sell things that are needed.
Priest
Whatever race you are from there are times when ones soul needs council on doing the right thing, and the sick will always need the aid of faith.
Rogue
In every society there are people that have things and people that don’t, in these places is where you find the rogues looking to redistribute the wealth from the rich to themselves.
Sailor
The worlds have oceans and on the oceans sail ships to travel and conquer the world you need these sailors to man these great vessels.
Soldier
The world is a violent place and to protect your city or to gain fortune army’s are needed and solders fill the ranks. Whether a lone warrior or a member of a great army this is where you start.
Wanderer
There are those that don’t fit in anywhere else, they have a wonder lust that no one place can ever quench, travelling the world these people learn and help others whether for knowledge, or even wealth. Some will just not stay put in one place for long.
They look good, but I find it a bit strange that someone can be draftedJacqual said:
into a Priest career. In my experience many players have no interest
in a setting's religion(s), and therefore do not enjoy to play any kind of
priest, so forcing them to do so by having their character drafted into
that career does not look like a good idea to me.
As it is a early draft there will be plenty of time for revision's. I am also hoping to draft out the Priest career and make it more exciting then a standard fantasy Priest. Or if that isnt possiable then it may move into the realm of one of the none draft careers and be replaced with another. I plan on having the non draft careers be something that not just anyone can be like how a Noble needs to be Social B or better. I also intend to have race specific careers which need alot of fleshing at this point. As I do intend for my campaign to have Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, and halfling/hobbit what have you types. Might work on throwing more into the mix and change the races. That is all in that future fleshing out as I dont want something so awesome everyone will only want to be that. I am mostly doing this just to prove only to myself that Mong Trav will run a complete Fantasy game with only minor rule revision. As none of this is ever going to be any form of public release I am not worried about breaking any OGL rules. I dont even plan on releasing a free PDF of them, but if it ever does come to that yes I will make sure of compliance to all the OGL rules and give all credit to where it is due. And Rust thank you for your comments I will take it under consideration as you may very well have a valid point I didnt even think of before.
Good luck and much fun with your project, Jacqual.
I have meanwhile finished at least the core of the material needed for my
Asornok setting and campaign, but it has a much smaller scope than your
project: Only one specific setting and only one career, the Asor tribesman
(or tribeswoman), with all the other characters of the campaign (e.g. the
Norse settlers on Greenland) being more or less detailed nonplayer cha-
racters.
Apart from the career, I now have a description of the Asor culture (about
seven pages), some game system material (skills, equipment and wea-
pons, shamanism, creatures, etc.) and a couple of maps (Asornok Island,
an Asor winter camp, the Norse settlement Nordrsetur) - although all of it
in German.
As time and other projects permit, I will continue to expand and improve
the material by and by until it becomes a playable setting and campaign,
but I am not yet sure whether we will ever play it.
Well, at least it shows that at least such a limited pseudo historical / low
fantasy setting and campaign are quite possible with Mongoose Traveller,
and I have now no doubt that Mongoose Traveller could also be used for
a full fledged fantasy campaign, and with far fewer modifications of the
system than I had expected.
I have meanwhile finished at least the core of the material needed for my
Asornok setting and campaign, but it has a much smaller scope than your
project: Only one specific setting and only one career, the Asor tribesman
(or tribeswoman), with all the other characters of the campaign (e.g. the
Norse settlers on Greenland) being more or less detailed nonplayer cha-
racters.
Apart from the career, I now have a description of the Asor culture (about
seven pages), some game system material (skills, equipment and wea-
pons, shamanism, creatures, etc.) and a couple of maps (Asornok Island,
an Asor winter camp, the Norse settlement Nordrsetur) - although all of it
in German.
As time and other projects permit, I will continue to expand and improve
the material by and by until it becomes a playable setting and campaign,
but I am not yet sure whether we will ever play it.
Well, at least it shows that at least such a limited pseudo historical / low
fantasy setting and campaign are quite possible with Mongoose Traveller,
and I have now no doubt that Mongoose Traveller could also be used for
a full fledged fantasy campaign, and with far fewer modifications of the
system than I had expected.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
I don't think that Healing should automatically be connected to a Priest. That is very D&D.
While many Priests are also healers, in the real world, not all healers are Priests, even in the past.
I would suggest that you have a Magical Healer be a speciality of your Mage Career. One that is commonly cross-trained from the Priest career. Medic remains the non-Magical healing.
While many Priests are also healers, in the real world, not all healers are Priests, even in the past.
I would suggest that you have a Magical Healer be a speciality of your Mage Career. One that is commonly cross-trained from the Priest career. Medic remains the non-Magical healing.
In our fantasy campaigns the majority of the skilled healers were monksRikki Tikki Traveller said:
or nuns (but not necessarily priests), with the others being "wise women"
and some scholars.
The huge majority of priests had only rudimentary healing skills, if any.
Apart from their theological knowledge, their focus usually was on the
various social skills needed to keep their "flock" together and prevent it
from returning to previous religions and from adopting new ones or here-
sies.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:captainjack23 said:rust said:Thank you very much.
A link would indeed be helpful, my "search-fu" is not very good ...
I think this'll be it.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?p=240807&highlight=goetry#post240807
That's my first post on the subject in a very interesting thread. It's worth a read in addition to, or in despite of, my contributions.
Captain, for those of us COTI impaired, can you repost it here?
THANX
Well, sure, but.....looking at the stuff spread out over several posts and months, Im gonna clean it up a bit and organize it before hand. So, I'll be posting it here a bit at a time.
Here, then, follows the first bit.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
I. General Blathering about Magic and magic systems in history as opposed to games
For my money, I thought it would be kind of fun to work out a magic system from two starting points:
• An attempt to model modeling what the people in period believed about magic and how magic works
• Try not to be just another D&D magic system.
I've done some research on the first point in the past, and looking at classical writings about magic (source stuff, not victorian and neo-victorian pastiche), and one thing that struck me was that there were a heck of a lot of spells to make someone love you, and also to cure illness...and yes the two did overlap - there was a lot of curative stuff for what seems to be varieties of VD....
....not sure how that would do in an RPG... ...as well as ways to summon and bind various extraphysical beings (spirits) to get them to do stuff:
"Spirit of the great Merlin, I Bind, Command and Compel thee to go get me a cold Beer As it is Really, Really Hot in Here "
Additionally, from witnesses reports (and court records) there was lots of stage - type magic ("hey presto ! Standards of all nations , and you there, why do you have this denarii in your ear ?"). Animal tricks were big, too. In most cases, then, I saw three areas of effect: stuff that is either slow and effective (but often at a distance) or quick but mostly flash, or is based on previously enchanted objects/animals.
As an aside, it is important to remember that magic isn't real *.So, for period magic to have any hope of being convincing to either the target or the caster, spells that weren't obvious trickery (stage magic and such) had to happen offstage as much as possible. Thus, the reliance on SPOOOKY Spirits You Cannot See and Curses That Dog You Over the Next Seven Years Before they Are Obvious !
However, unless every Mage is to be the Amazing Kreskin, we need to allow some actual magic to work. So, looking at what was believed to be magic, and wasn't llikely just parlour tricks (for real money) there was very little of the point a finger and zap 'em to magic in the classical world. So, no fireballs, but instead, curses , lots of invoking of petty local gods, and lots of ways to summon and bind minor spirits for later convenience...
Oh yeah, plus enchanted stuff: mirrors, gems, beds, shoes, you name it.
And Animal control, which seems to have always been a big part of magery historically which can be seen as a combination of sophisticated training or simply treating them as enchanted objects or bound spirits.
* I am so not going to argue this point.
Next up: the why of what.
For my money, I thought it would be kind of fun to work out a magic system from two starting points:
• An attempt to model modeling what the people in period believed about magic and how magic works
• Try not to be just another D&D magic system.
I've done some research on the first point in the past, and looking at classical writings about magic (source stuff, not victorian and neo-victorian pastiche), and one thing that struck me was that there were a heck of a lot of spells to make someone love you, and also to cure illness...and yes the two did overlap - there was a lot of curative stuff for what seems to be varieties of VD....
....not sure how that would do in an RPG... ...as well as ways to summon and bind various extraphysical beings (spirits) to get them to do stuff:
"Spirit of the great Merlin, I Bind, Command and Compel thee to go get me a cold Beer As it is Really, Really Hot in Here "
Additionally, from witnesses reports (and court records) there was lots of stage - type magic ("hey presto ! Standards of all nations , and you there, why do you have this denarii in your ear ?"). Animal tricks were big, too. In most cases, then, I saw three areas of effect: stuff that is either slow and effective (but often at a distance) or quick but mostly flash, or is based on previously enchanted objects/animals.
As an aside, it is important to remember that magic isn't real *.So, for period magic to have any hope of being convincing to either the target or the caster, spells that weren't obvious trickery (stage magic and such) had to happen offstage as much as possible. Thus, the reliance on SPOOOKY Spirits You Cannot See and Curses That Dog You Over the Next Seven Years Before they Are Obvious !
However, unless every Mage is to be the Amazing Kreskin, we need to allow some actual magic to work. So, looking at what was believed to be magic, and wasn't llikely just parlour tricks (for real money) there was very little of the point a finger and zap 'em to magic in the classical world. So, no fireballs, but instead, curses , lots of invoking of petty local gods, and lots of ways to summon and bind minor spirits for later convenience...
Oh yeah, plus enchanted stuff: mirrors, gems, beds, shoes, you name it.
And Animal control, which seems to have always been a big part of magery historically which can be seen as a combination of sophisticated training or simply treating them as enchanted objects or bound spirits.
* I am so not going to argue this point.
Next up: the why of what.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Thanks!
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
II. So how should magic work if it is going to ?
This is Traveller, so my own bias is that there should be some kind of system -and one which is at least attempting to have a consistent belief system. So, lets look at what actual mages believed and start from there. Remember, this is the actual stuff, not the modern parsing of magical systems.
One major school of magic was entirely based on summoning various spirits (either in the forms of gods, demons or the dead, based on local region, generally)and either convincing or compelling them to do various things effecting the physical world. This is Goetry, or the magic of summoning and binding spirits -in many ways, it is a very technological or instrumental magic: the source of magic is another class of tools, which any mage can manipulate in the same ways, if they have the same knowledge (and motivation). Some things are impossible for spirits (or whatever) so cannot be done. There are lots of other philosophies of magic, many of them not based on current or Victorian Fantasy (
). Alchemy (a mechanistic approach) Theuristic magic (based on finding and developing a spark of the divine in all things) and Gnostic (based on perfect knowlege being able to alter essence) to name a few**. Goetry, in addition to having a cool mystiK name, seemed to be a good starting point, with a fairly instrumental approach that had defined limits (What Would A Demon be Able to Do ?)
So, for game terms, I decided that a mage had trickery: sleight of hand that works quickly and in front of witnesses, but is limited or trivial; some kind of slow insidious effects that were real; and enchanted stuff: mirrors, gems, beds, shoes, you name it. Different from memorized spells or channeled spells in many RPG systems, which really act more like fiddly high tech death ray guns and such. A classical period mage would seem more like a ....I don't know.....mechanic ? Carnival shyster ? Cult leader ? Mad scientist ?
So, enter Ambrosious Corvus, master of love phylacteries, and soothing ointments, balms and salves for cupid's measles ! In his cart he has bound no less than three spirits to do his bidding, small, yes, and innocuous, but both stealthy and reliable (one in the form of a crow), and has a contract with an ACTUAL BABYLONIAN SHE-DEAMON !!!
Four snakes wind round him, protecting and warding him : asp of egypt, adder of Africa ,cobra of the indus, and ...well, some kind of truthfully innocuous but very intimidating large black snake that does this great hissing thing....
Okay, not exactly gandalf, but not yer typical fireball slinger, either....
** based on my own idiosyncratic classification scheme. So put your hands down and listen up.
next up: maybe some rules ?
This is Traveller, so my own bias is that there should be some kind of system -and one which is at least attempting to have a consistent belief system. So, lets look at what actual mages believed and start from there. Remember, this is the actual stuff, not the modern parsing of magical systems.
One major school of magic was entirely based on summoning various spirits (either in the forms of gods, demons or the dead, based on local region, generally)and either convincing or compelling them to do various things effecting the physical world. This is Goetry, or the magic of summoning and binding spirits -in many ways, it is a very technological or instrumental magic: the source of magic is another class of tools, which any mage can manipulate in the same ways, if they have the same knowledge (and motivation). Some things are impossible for spirits (or whatever) so cannot be done. There are lots of other philosophies of magic, many of them not based on current or Victorian Fantasy (
). Alchemy (a mechanistic approach) Theuristic magic (based on finding and developing a spark of the divine in all things) and Gnostic (based on perfect knowlege being able to alter essence) to name a few**. Goetry, in addition to having a cool mystiK name, seemed to be a good starting point, with a fairly instrumental approach that had defined limits (What Would A Demon be Able to Do ?) So, for game terms, I decided that a mage had trickery: sleight of hand that works quickly and in front of witnesses, but is limited or trivial; some kind of slow insidious effects that were real; and enchanted stuff: mirrors, gems, beds, shoes, you name it. Different from memorized spells or channeled spells in many RPG systems, which really act more like fiddly high tech death ray guns and such. A classical period mage would seem more like a ....I don't know.....mechanic ? Carnival shyster ? Cult leader ? Mad scientist ?
So, enter Ambrosious Corvus, master of love phylacteries, and soothing ointments, balms and salves for cupid's measles ! In his cart he has bound no less than three spirits to do his bidding, small, yes, and innocuous, but both stealthy and reliable (one in the form of a crow), and has a contract with an ACTUAL BABYLONIAN SHE-DEAMON !!!
Four snakes wind round him, protecting and warding him : asp of egypt, adder of Africa ,cobra of the indus, and ...well, some kind of truthfully innocuous but very intimidating large black snake that does this great hissing thing....
Okay, not exactly gandalf, but not yer typical fireball slinger, either....
** based on my own idiosyncratic classification scheme. So put your hands down and listen up.
next up: maybe some rules ?
The magic system I am working on for my campaign is based heavily on the Psionics system already in place in the rules. The reason im doing it this way is it keeps power levels consistant across characters. As Psionics are in traveller they are balenced as to not overpower a character compared to a character that does not have them. If your Psionic in Traveller it is easier most of the time to just shoot someone. While there are times a psionic attack is preferred, it isnt always better. While a character like a Mage might have some form of a fireball spell that does more damage he will not have the ability to do it hundreds of times a day. As I am striving for a balance act it wont be easy. I am thinking of having like schools of magic like you have the Psionic disciplines.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Some initial mechanics: Vancian, Manna or what ?
Now a key question: how many spells can be cast, and how frequently can spells be cast ?
First, I found some of my notes for TFTizing the Thieves world trav setting, what seems to me to be the most useful bit was how the Magic skill was used to rate how many spells mages have. So, perhaps it should also be used as a limit on "stuff". I wanted to stick to CT type levels , (1-5ish) and used the square of the skill level, which gave a steep curve, as I liked. Now, the other issue I have with current RPG systems is that if they aren't slot based, they tend to be accounting based; in other words, Mages have a fuel tank which they can allocate as they wish. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it does seem to be more consistent with modern technology and an almost universally literate and Numerate society - so I'll try and avoid it.
Slot based systems (aka Vancian) seem a bit closer to the fuzzy and vague impression I've gotten of Mages, given that you basically have a magazine full of different types of bullets. Again, perhaps a bit to modern....and dare I say it, wargamey ("Merlin - troll at six o'clock -load napalm round").
So, what I'll suggest is that either this should use
a very basic "cast till you fail, then stop for the day" system, or a very rough grained endurance system that isn't predetermined as to cost. So for this, I'd have a mage pay for his spells as if they were combat damage, based on how well it works or fails. The twist is, I'd make the cost equal to the amount that the a roll succeeds by or that it fails by; thus, if one needed a roll of 8 to cast a spell, a roll of 10 would succeed and cost 2 points (or dice?) of damage, as would failing. The damage wouldn't have to be allocated by dice as combat damage in CT is, but would require the first blood and unconsciousness/serious injury penalties as stats go to zero.
I admit I like the second version simply because its different, although the concept that both failure and great success take alot out of you is appealing. But, it might make Magery useless due to the risks. I'd have to test it, I guess.
In either case, magery becomes less predictable and slippery, which seems in keeping with my initial goal.
Now a key question: how many spells can be cast, and how frequently can spells be cast ?
First, I found some of my notes for TFTizing the Thieves world trav setting, what seems to me to be the most useful bit was how the Magic skill was used to rate how many spells mages have. So, perhaps it should also be used as a limit on "stuff". I wanted to stick to CT type levels , (1-5ish) and used the square of the skill level, which gave a steep curve, as I liked. Now, the other issue I have with current RPG systems is that if they aren't slot based, they tend to be accounting based; in other words, Mages have a fuel tank which they can allocate as they wish. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it does seem to be more consistent with modern technology and an almost universally literate and Numerate society - so I'll try and avoid it.
Slot based systems (aka Vancian) seem a bit closer to the fuzzy and vague impression I've gotten of Mages, given that you basically have a magazine full of different types of bullets. Again, perhaps a bit to modern....and dare I say it, wargamey ("Merlin - troll at six o'clock -load napalm round").
So, what I'll suggest is that either this should use
a very basic "cast till you fail, then stop for the day" system, or a very rough grained endurance system that isn't predetermined as to cost. So for this, I'd have a mage pay for his spells as if they were combat damage, based on how well it works or fails. The twist is, I'd make the cost equal to the amount that the a roll succeeds by or that it fails by; thus, if one needed a roll of 8 to cast a spell, a roll of 10 would succeed and cost 2 points (or dice?) of damage, as would failing. The damage wouldn't have to be allocated by dice as combat damage in CT is, but would require the first blood and unconsciousness/serious injury penalties as stats go to zero.
I admit I like the second version simply because its different, although the concept that both failure and great success take alot out of you is appealing. But, it might make Magery useless due to the risks. I'd have to test it, I guess.
In either case, magery becomes less predictable and slippery, which seems in keeping with my initial goal.
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