2300AD, thoughts and wishes

[EDG]

That could be a cause for war or turmoil.

There's nothing on Halley's comet - which has actually been studied at close range quite extensively, and is just a bog-standard comet - that would be worth fighting for.

Or any comet, for that matter. Unless it's an alien artifact or something (do we really need a 2300AD version of Lifeforce?)

 

[Colin]

<snippage>
Or any comet, for that matter. Unless it's an alien artifact or something (do we really need a 2300AD version of Lifeforce?)

mmmm. Mathilda May... :twisted:

I looked at changing the starmap, but it was eventually decided that it was beyond the purview of the project.

Looking at the Traveller products being produced as an example, Mongoose isn't really producing a new version of 2300AD for the original fans. They are looking to hook in new players with a hard-SF setting. I will do my best to not alienate the existing fan base, but that is not my primary goal, I'm afraid.

The way I'm approaching this, and will continue to do so until the TPTB tell me not to, is to answer the question of how we get to the future of 2300AD from here? Complete with the tech oddities, some sort of near extinction level event (whether man-made or natural), stutterwarp, plasma guns and orbital elevators.

Key elements of the 2300AD setting
Twilight (War)
Early French primacy
American isolation
stutterwarp drive and advanced space travel
Spinning gravity habs
Really alien aliens
spaceplanes and shuttles
impending alien war...
3-D starmap

What else?

 

[EDG]

OK, why cover the 21st century in any detail at all?

You could just suggest that it carries on pretty much as it started - unstable, with lots of little border wars and skirmishes and sabrerattling going on pretty much constantly. The cumulative effect of all this is that gradually, over ther course of the century, old powers fell and new powers arose. America became increasingly isolated (or chose to isolate itself) as its power waned, France became more dominant as is involved itself more in international affairs, African nations merged and broke up (changing the map there), China came out reasonably strong, etc. And all the while, the world is changing as a result of environmental change, creating even more stress and pressure on nations as a result of the movement of a lot of human population, food shortages etc.

That whole era could be referred to later as "Twilight" - things didn't change as a result of a single (really unlikely IMO) catastrophic war, and they didn't change because of a single catastrophe like an asteroid strike, but by the time the 21st century was over the political and social landscape had changed pretty significantly. It wasn't all bleak and horrible, but it wasn't really good for anyone either.

 

[Joi Sourcebook]

<snippage>

Key elements of the 2300AD setting
Twilight (War)
Early French primacy
American isolation
stutterwarp drive and advanced space travel
Spinning gravity habs
Really alien aliens
spaceplanes and shuttles
impending alien war...
3-D starmap

What else?

Multi-national / balkanised Earth and settled planets
Majority recognisable nations with some interesting changes (Texas, Bavaria or equivalents)
Dominant (or recently dominant) France as a multi-continental multi-world nation

I think France gives you good plot devices (for the good guys, bad guys, cavalry coming over the hill etc.) and gives everything an interesting and different feel with the French terminology (military and otherwise). For me France in 2300AD has always been a bit like Robert Heinlein's doors that Irised open - its nothing major its just something that makes you feel you're in a different place.

Oh and don't forget - Laurent Esmiol illustrations!

Just my 0.02Lv

 

[Gee4orce]

I just dont get the fascination with combat walkers or mechs. Surely these things would be slow, noisy and heavy, and attract the attention of every terrorist with and RPG or an IED ?! Even mighty Imperial Scout Walkers can be defeated by teddy bears with a few tree trunks...

The only mechs that come close to feeling halfway believable are the crab-tank things in Ghost in the Shell, or the T-Rex like thing in Metal Gear Solid.

I do like the idea of Iron Man or Master Chief style powered armour - but anything bigger than that ? Nah.

 

[steffworthington]

I never used combat mechs but their inclusion was ok as far as I was concerned. Also, they'll be a brilliant 'hook' for gamers who have been to see Cameron's 'Avatar'.

I agree with you Colin that this game isnt made for me but for new players. No problem with that. I hope its a success but would hate to see the fans who've waited so long for a new edition being disgruntled.

The comet post above, while perfectly valid, is a great example of why customers should never influence producers. If people had listened to those who've wanted to change 2300AD in the past it would be nothing like the game now.
Think back, how many different additions have people suggested? We would have hundreds of versions of 2300AD with none taking hold... its like switching through hundreds of tv channels.
So where do we draw the line?

Canon

New players can be brought in by design. Good futurist illustration. visionary technical architecture. Reasonable marketing.

new players are going to like the setting... for them its new and they have no expectations. Sadly, the older gamer has expectations... and theyve been loyal and are likely to buy EVERYTHING ... sometimes just to complete their set. I know, and it may just be me (!), that a change in a setting can discourage me from buying a book. It took years for me to buy rotten to the core and the earth/cybertech sourcebook because it had left the hard edge behind and gone cyber. Even today they are not the best books of the range by far.
Im not bothered about the rules... they can be changed at your table but the setting... if its changed it would feel somehow..less than before. Like those Czech-like '60s Tom & Jerry cartoons compared to the 40s ones. or Scooby doo with scrappy compared to the ones where the irritating little shite wasnt present.

I may be going overboard on this, and I'm sure some of you will be vocal about it. But this is one of my fave games... belive me Id be a lot more concerned if it wasnt Colin at the helm.
I really dont see a need for an asteroidal impact when China is on the rise and Russia is STILL rattling its sabre and if anything is more beligerent now than under the last few communist leaders.

Colin, it's nothing personal fella. Im sure you'll do a grand job for a lot of people. Its just my opinion that I don't need or want my 2300AD to change. I've waited too long for it.

 

[rust]

@ steffworthington:

I have to admit that I really find it difficult to understand you.

Just out of curiosity, not as any kind of provocation: If you want nothing
to change, why a new edition while the original one is still there ? :?

 

[GJD]

I can understand the desire not to change anything - in retrospect I felt the same way waiting for Cyberpunk V3 from Cyberpunk 2020. Granted, V3 was a terrible, terrible travesty of a product, but what I wanted was just another printing of the same game, not an evolution.

I think if the core elements are there, then the cause of the twilight period 300 years a go is irrelevent. How often have the causes of the twilight war actually come up in gameplay? If the end result is the same, French dominance etc, then what does it matter? It's simple enough to recon out of your own game. Likewise if combat walkers aren't your thing - fine. Replace them with a two man PGMP, missile or HMG team. These games are toolkits, not holy books and I'm just glad to be getting a new version at all.

MHD turbines should still have no moving parts, though.


G.

 

[steffworthington]

I've never said it didn't need polishing.

I would keep the history and setting the same. If its set in the future like 2320AD then a few more worlds, and extension of the history would be fine. I accept that and welcome it. I liked the background for 2320, same as I liked the background for TNE.

Here's what I'd have to see:

Same History
Same power balance (France on top)

Here's what I'd like to see:

setting extension (if set some years hence)
1 or 2 new technologies (if set some years hence)
1 or 2 new worlds (if set some years hence, possibly along the quality of 'Poseidon' in Blue Planet)
new illustrations updating the 'tech look'
laurent esmiol designs and in fact a whole new trade dress.
A fresher feel to the writing of the rules and setting text (which i know Colin can give) Sow e feel ecited at this new frontier rather than looking at a text book. Maybe a decent character story sidebar? a family history from 2000 to the present? so we can empathise with this families journey through times and troubles and get a true scope of the immensity and importance of the setting.
Better rules system (Traveller or MRQ)
In situ media (ads, posters, news reports, note papers etc) in the rule book to give the player and referee a really good 'feel' of the universe in which its set.

It is entirely possible to produce a game which is faithful to the old but is also new, vibrant, exciting, and immersive.

Sorry, if i wasnt being clear. Is that better?

 

[steffworthington]

oh yeah.. and my logos! (for which i lovingly created for a certain company but was never paid.)
(see facebook link below)

 

[rust]

Sorry, if i wasnt being clear. Is that better?

Thank you, now I get it.

 

[steffworthington]

sorry! I tend to drift when im animated!

 

[Sturn]

I may be a minority, but agree with much of what Steffworthington stated.

I want a new 2300 AD, not an old copy. Advance a couple years, add a few pieces of slightly new technology, fix a little bit of the history because of what we now know (nothing drastic), fix some of the tech because of what we know now (tiny hand-held computers vs the portacomp), and a conversion to MGT rules.

Everyone seemed to love Hammer's Slammers for MGT. What if the writers had started mucking around with it to make it, "new"?

Traveller 2300 and 2300 AD were nearly identical. I bet all of the old fans here still ran back to get the new edition. Corrections, updates, better writing, new artwork, and a new rules system is a change. New fans? Everything will be new to them even if nothing is changed but the rules system.

Many here have probably read Starship Troopers. Then later saw the movie. I recall watching the movie and thinking they would have done better by not calling it Starship Troopers at all. Completey different story. I would have been pleased if it was called by some new title. I hated it as Starship Troopers. Want a game with an asteroid impact changing the world, etc. Please make it. I would probably buy it. Just don't call it 2300 AD.

 

[Colin]

MHD turbines should still have no moving parts, though.


G.

Yeah, yeah yeah...

 

[Colin]

What I would like to do is rationalize the past of 2300Ad with our present and future. I have trouble seeing something like the Twilight War given the present circumstances. So, something has to unbalance the equation.

The Twilight War gave 2300AD a divided Germany, superpower France, isolationist America, a huge population die-off, and an excuse for the retarded (as in slowed) state of technological advance. To get to the end state of 2300AD, we would need something similar.

The reason I like an asteroid as a war starter (or ender) is that it provides an additional excuse for the skewed nature of 2300AD technology. An asteroid impact would have served as a strong goad to get back into space, both for early-warning/defense, and a get-our-eggs-into-more-than-one-basket sort of deal. After Twilight, there would be very limited resources for scientific and technological development. An emphasis on space technology means that less attention is given to computers, or consumer electronics, or AI research. The development of the stutterwarp merely accelerates this, and adds the challenges of planetary colonization and terraforming to the mix.

Instead of a divided Germany, perhaps we see a divided EU, with Germany broken into rump Germany, and a French client state called Bavaria, which includes southern Germany and Austria. The War of German Reunification becomes the European Union war, where the small nations of Europe unify against French protests. The actual War itself is more of a demonstration of force sort of thing, with few casualties.

 

[steffworthington]

The EU is not like the US.

The states of Europe are a lot more independent. With this in mind it strangeley far less likely to be an Earth shattering cataclysm if one state doesnt follow another. it happens every day in the EU.
Thats why we still have pound sterling and others use the Euro. Only recently France came back to NATO for example. If there was an 'EU War' its likely to be a war between two nations with peacekeepers in the middle. The EU factor wont even come into as its 95% an economic body.

 

[EDG]

Here's what I'd like to see:

setting extension (if set some years hence)
1 or 2 new technologies (if set some years hence)
1 or 2 new worlds (if set some years hence, possibly along the quality of 'Poseidon' in Blue Planet)
new illustrations updating the 'tech look'
laurent esmiol designs and in fact a whole new trade dress.
A fresher feel to the writing of the rules and setting text (which i know Colin can give) Sow e feel ecited at this new frontier rather than looking at a text book. Maybe a decent character story sidebar? a family history from 2000 to the present? so we can empathise with this families journey through times and troubles and get a true scope of the immensity and importance of the setting.
Better rules system (Traveller or MRQ)
In situ media (ads, posters, news reports, note papers etc) in the rule book to give the player and referee a really good 'feel' of the universe in which its set.

It is entirely possible to produce a game which is faithful to the old but is also new, vibrant, exciting, and immersive.

Most of that was done in 2320AD.

I don't know the legalities of it all, but (much as I am loathe to suggest anything that would give them any money) is it not possible to just buy 2320AD back off QLI and publish that properly?

 

[steffworthington]

it was.
It was also a setting which didn't really see the light of day. and it was d20 (shudder)

Also, a few people were unhappy about the treatment of the Kafer pasrt of the milieu. (hasten to add, I was not one of them)

 

[Colin]

it was.

Also, a few people were unhappy about the treatment of the Kafer pasrt of the milieu. (hasten to add, I was not one of them)

I would likely do that differently now. That was 5 years ago, after all.

I have offered, in the past, to buy 2320AD back from QLI, and received no response. I suggested to Marc that I make an arrangement to buy back 2320AD, and repackage it with an updated version of the original system. No response. <shrug>

Would I revisit 2320AD for Mongoose? In a minute. But I can't. Not unless someone gets a response out of QLI. And having just bought a house, I'm no longer in a position to buy it back, unless he wants in on some sort of profit-sharing.

Heck, I would gear it up for Mongoose Traveller, grab all the art produced, and sell it via Flaming Cobra. If I could.

But I can't.

 

[steffworthington]

5 years? wow. Tempus Fugit!