2300AD, thoughts and wishes

We have a main book, a book of ships, 4-5 Atlas books, an exploratory campaign, a Kafer War campaign, a troubleshooting campaign, a book of vehicles, and a book of weapons and equipment. Battlefield Evolution rules for 2300AD equipment. BEvo stats for Kafers and Sung, with Slaver War and Kafer War scenarios.
 
captainjack23 said:
Colin said:
2300AD already features an alternate timeline. It postulates WWIII starting around 1995 or so. If I can, I would like to move away from the alternate reality and towards something possible, at least to the extent that it could could in our future. That was part of the appeal of 2300AD to me.

The trick is to make it plausible.


Fair enough. So, it seems you need to pick a date for a catastrophy that will allow all of us to be dead and unable to note when time catches up, while giving enough time for recovery.

I agree with Doc that accidents and single terrorist actions, or disasters with long prep time aren't going to trigger a major nuclear war -it has to be somthing that puts the varous powers in fear of their existance -and fearing the possibility that their deterrent will be destroyed if they wait; or that they have already been hit with overwhelming force and have only a retributive strike left.

The asteroid isn't bad at all. As to provoking a nuclear exchange, you'll want to read or recall Lucifer's hammer, which involves a strike by a cometary nucleus (lots of small hits) which results in a premptive strike by chna on the (then) soviet union, to forstall the soviets need to migrate south once the resultant impact winter sets in.
IIRC, the soviet launch on detection of the chinese attack (still the policy, BTW, and why misfires and contact errors are a big fear); the US has been similarly primed fr an attack, and launches on warning of the soviet launches -which are primarily aimed at china, but still have a limited counterstrike. BOOM !. Not a full scale exchange, but a biggish one. Another novel, I cant remember , supposed a solar flare blasting either the soviet union or the US, cutting off all communications and control. And then, according to protocol, the surviving deeper silos and subs fire when out of communications for a set period.

Its not hard to imagine some kind of event like that which would trigger that nowadays -nuke wise, the situation is closer to the 1960's than the late cold war -the soviets and Chinese still only have about 10% of the US strike capacity -so it's set for hair trigger response - as we could certainly knock out nearly all their sites if they wait for a detonation......smoke em if ya got em.

A major, sudden climactic change has the potential for everone to start thinking that the lifeboat won't have enough seats......and the smaller nuclear powers could quite feasably decide that with the big boys distracted, its time to sort out old grudges....Israel, Iran, India Pakistan, N. Korea; and probably others. Only one of them needs to panic.
And a brief warning of such a disaster (like an incoming impact)may do more harm than good, too, as politicians have time to make decisions, but not enough to talk or make good decisions.

Interestingly, if Russia and china and china are most worried about each other, and the US, Europe may well do better than it would have in the cold war when the USSR and Warsaw pact has ample nukes to hit Europe and the USA - not the case now. Note that I'm assuming that the USA won't pull down the temple as it were, if it looks to be destroyed -at least as far as striking non enemies.

Also look at some of the Tom Clancy books for this type of scenario . But if you want something thta provoke a nuclear exchange, look towards powers who have weak/evolving command and control systems that also have nuclear capability.

Bear in mind that a single "event" is unlikely to trigger a nuclear response per-say today an asteroid might not do it, same is true of a terrorist attack, one might not trigger a cataclysmic response, but, several co-ordinated attacks/events might.

The right kind of event in time of high crisis, e.g. tension between india and china, leads up to a situation where , an ice-water asteroid strike against Delehi, causes a nuclear release by India, and a counter-strike by China and Pakistan that detects Indian launches ,which in turn cascades etc... also depending on the scale of he exchange, you wouldn't need "everyone" to particpate for it to be quite "unfortunate" for the eco-system, causing martial law, civil unrest, the scramble for resources in the west and near east, the former soviet block countries, thoese with weaker economies might slip back towards a more dictatorial government type, as "democracy fails them" in the world crisis... raising tension in europe and NATO... in deed in the current situation NATO may fracture because of the current intergration with countries that are now "on the other side"
 
I would have thought that the most plausible trigger for a global conflict this century would be something environmentally related :

My take : a huge crop failure due to water shortages (dust bowl) in the mid west USA means America faces a real food shortage, so it attempts to buy up as much of the global supply as it can. China faces a similar situation, and at some point the two come to blows. The middle/far east, india and africa become the battlegrounds. Europe and S.America … either get caught in the crossfire or descend into in-fighting between local states.

Heck, you don't even need to bring in nuclear weapons - massive drought, extreme weather conditions and global warming will do enough environmental damage as it is.
 
dreamingbadger said:
But if you want something thta provoke a nuclear exchange, look towards powers who have weak/evolving command and control systems that also have nuclear capability.

Bear in mind that a single "event" is unlikely to trigger a nuclear response per-say today an asteroid might not do it, same is true of a terrorist attack, one might not trigger a cataclysmic response, but, several co-ordinated attacks/events might.

Check out Alexander Harrowell's (he blogs as the Yorkshire Ranter) conjecture that the terrorist attack on Mumbai last year was part of a larger operation to touch off a Pakistan/India war (long story short - someone called the Pakistani president as the Mumbai outrage was happening claiming to be the Indian Foreign Minister and threatening war, according to the Pakistani logs the call originated in the Indian Foreign Ministry - but CLI is pretty easy to spoof if you are a reasonably resourced criminal/terrorist conspiracy or state actor).

A more sophisticated version of this sort of thing could be one piece in a puzzle that gets you to a reasonably plausible scenario for a nuclear exchange. Having said that, put me down in the 'keep the details of the Twilight vague' camp.

colin said:
On to technology. I want to add a few bits of tech that 2300AD didn't have. I squeezed some of them into 2320, but I want to make them more integrated into the background for the new version.
[snip]

A very nice sketch. To date I've passed on MGT, but if you get this cleared and the product line you outlined starts getting fulfilled I'll be revising that decision.

Regards
Luke
 
Fantastic to see the new 2300 material in preparation once more – don’t forget Laurent Esmiol for the ship illustrations.

Just a few thoughts from me on what I would like (or not).

For the setting

What makes 2300AD 2300AD – or what you MUST keep if its not to become something else (not that I wouldn’t buy something else it just wouldn’t be 2300AD)
  • Multi-national with recognisable nations
    Dominant multi-ethnic, multi-national France
    Hard SF, realistic physics (apart from stutterwarp)
    The near star map (but see below) and the arms
    No AI
    Existing aliens
    Existing colonies
    Laurent Esmiol ship illustrations
What I’d really like to keep
  • The existing nations (e.g. Bavaria and Texas stay)
    The existing history 2100-2300
What I’d like to add
  • More development in space/solar systems
    Sky-hooks (beanstalks that don’t touch down)
    More up to date view of computers/info tech
    Better treatment of DNAM/bio-tech but need to be very careful not to turn this into Trans-human space (that’s a different game)
    More Laurent Esmiol ship illustrations
What I’m not bothered about
  • The near star map (but see above) providing you can produce something functionally equivalent (i.e. isolated arms) based on modern stellar cartography.
    Moving existing colonies to new stars to make the setting fit.
    History prior to 2100
 
Colin said:
Walkers: Let's take a cue from the Japanese in terms of design aesthetic. Combat walkers with big honking plasma guns, and hard points for machine guns, mini guns, point defense, missile launchers and other good stuff.

PLEASE don't make it a mech game. I can go play Mechwarrior if I wish. The advanced armor of 2300 AD were pre-battledress not pre-mech.
 
Sturn said:
PLEASE don't make it a mech game. I can go play Mechwarrior if I wish. The advanced armor of 2300 AD were pre-battledress not pre-mech.
Seconded - expansions into mech or transhumanism territory would be
very likely to change the setting enough to ruin its unique "feel".
 
Personally I’d stick with the alternate history WW3 but if you must…

You have three requirements
  • Need to end up in much the same place in 2100 – back in space, developing stutterwarp, French are the top dog.
    Significant global disaster but not an extinction event or something that sends us all back to the stone-age, or even back to the Nineteenth Century.
    Plausable
I would put any significant event 20 years out so as to avoid any immediate obsolescence (may also avoid stepping on too many sensitive toes)
I think your asteroid idea is rather attractive but for two reasons
  • Initial encounter results in multiple small (city killer) strikes as part of the asteroid calves on re-entry. I’m sure you could rig this to simulate the effects of the WW3 nukes. Subsequent chaos/starvation/breakdown of civilisation can then occur much as before with the gradual rebuilding.
    Observations at the time indicate that the asteroid will be back in 50 years (pick your timescale). This gives a very good motive to build back up ASAP and put a lot of effort into space development at the expense of virtually all else.
Not sure why France should get off lightly – maybe they are just lucky. Also high reliance on Nuclear power would shield them from some effects of breakdown in trade and loss of oil supplies.
 
Sturn said:
Colin said:
Walkers: Let's take a cue from the Japanese in terms of design aesthetic. Combat walkers with big honking plasma guns, and hard points for machine guns, mini guns, point defense, missile launchers and other good stuff.

PLEASE don't make it a mech game. I can go play Mechwarrior if I wish. The advanced armor of 2300 AD were pre-battledress not pre-mech.

I'm still talking clunky combat walkers. I just want them to look better, and be a little more flexible, mission-wise. I'm not talking mini-mechs, I'm talking realistic extrapolations of what a combat walker can do, given that the technology, by 2300, has been around for over 50 years.
 
Maybe I'm alone, but I really loved the look of the French BH-21. It did appear to be archaic, early, battledress. The German version wasn't as cool looking, but was fine too since it was a step forward in technology towards actual battledress. If you start making them bigger, then you end up with mechs. I don't want my hover APCs and tanks to become obsolete, which they would, if mechs showed up on the scene.

BH-21 = cool. Japanese anime mech = not cool.

Not as cool as the BH-21 (it's too tall), but here is a fan's "BH-25".

versus

Mech 1
Mech 2
Mech 3
 
One of the things I liked most with the 2300AD material was that the
equipment looked functional and plausible - much more so than with
many other science fiction rpgs.

So, if "sub-mechs" have to be introduced, please make them look like
military equipment, and not like nonsensical Japanese mechs that were
obviously designed for show, not for combat.
 
What? Nonsensical!? Please wash your mouth out with some Gasaraki. 8)

28058.jpg


Of course, like all combat walkers and semi-giant robots, they still don't make sense. But they're very cool ...
 
Sturn said:
Maybe I'm alone, but I really loved the look of the French BH-21. It did appear to be archaic, early, battledress. The German version wasn't as cool looking, but was fine too since it was a step forward in technology towards actual battledress. If you start making them bigger, then you end up with mechs. I don't want my hover APCs and tanks to become obsolete, which they would, if mechs showed up on the scene.

BH-21 = cool. Japanese anime mech = not cool.

Not as cool as the BH-21 (it's too tall), but here is a fan's "BH-25".

versus

Mech 1
Mech 2
Mech 3

Oh, I ain't talking Gundam, believe me. Think more Maschinen Krieger (SF3D).

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/mecha/ps_mak.htm

I don't mind the BH-21, but I rather hate the Kz-7. All those flat armour bits just scream "Shoot me here!" Curves are better. Combat walkers are designed to defeat small arms, and light heavy weapons, not the big stuff.
 
rust said:
Sturn said:
PLEASE don't make it a mech game. I can go play Mechwarrior if I wish. The advanced armor of 2300 AD were pre-battledress not pre-mech.
Seconded - expansions into mech or transhumanism territory would be
very likely to change the setting enough to ruin its unique "feel".

But Combat Walkers make it 2300 for me. you can get rid of France being the dominant party (i often did or at least had them as the bad guys, indeed worse than the Kafer), change the history so that we get squished by the moon drying out and littering earth with collosal cheese fragments, but Combat walkers and Mechs are what got me into gaming.

see etranger for details. Bring on the bowman!!

2300 was not a mech game, but these things were at the very basis of the game and style for me.

On the AI front, i think it would be pretty ludicrous that we wouldn't have AI in 300 years time. And if 2300 is going to be hard science fiction, then advanced technology and computers need to be very firmly in there, and Bio tech, and all the other things that have been mentioned earlier.

Colin, given some of the things you've theroised on here you certainly will have one person buying it and thats me!

keep it coming

Chef
 
Colin said:
I'm talking more like this:

It's true that the Maschinenkrieger concept is also very cool indeed. 8)

tak5haka-meteor-final-1.jpg


I would caution against having visuals in 2300AD which too closely resemble their inspiration, though, because it can lead to problems like Battletech's "unseen mechs" like the Warhammer, which could not be shown in later editions because they were closely based on Macross mecha. Granted, Ma.K. are rather more obscure, being primarily model kits with a backstory (and one day I'll be able to afford buying some of those kits), but the possibility of legal action is also growig with more world-wide web access. Just the other day a tiny hole-in-the wall coffee shop here on a remote Pacific island had to change its name because the Moulin Rouge found out about it on the internet. :shock:
 
"Closely based"? :D They were direct copies! Ted Lindsey's illo, on page 9, was certainly inspired by MaK, but it is far from a copy. That image was originally produced for 2320AD, but like many illustrative works produced for that game, it was never published.
 
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