2300AD on Pre-Order

[torus]

I suppose I do not want machine guns as in loads and loads of machine guns. I want machine guns as in machine guns instead of rayguns. I agree that the Kafer stuff was dull, but that does not motivate space-opera designs and artwork. I enjoyed 2300AD because it was at the time the best RPG rendition of such gritty settings as found in Outpost, Alien etc. Without that, what is left?

I don't think the cover necessarily says ray guns, and I agree that would be wrong. And I also like the idea of a game which encompassed a dark, gritty Alien-like setting would be great, but for me 2300 AD went in a different direction. The setting was too well developed and brightly lit, with farmers and friendly aliens, and the theme of exploration and the unknown was ignored apart from Bayern (which in retrospect was quite a misfit with the rest of the material). Instead the focus was on developing colony worlds and then fighting the space orcs^D^D^D^D^D^D Kafers.

Ok that's a bit unfair - the Kafers were more interesting than that, but I do wonder if the setting might have been better without any sentient aliens, just the hint (or threat) of them. And the Earth/Cybertech book was jumping the shark. Did anyone really want to play 2300 with mirrorshades?

 

[Sturn]

.....and the theme of exploration and the unknown was ignored apart from Bayern (which in retrospect was quite a misfit with the rest of the material).

I think there was lots of material for exploration and the unknown:

..the most obvious ones..

Bayern: The one mentioned above. Large scout vessel into the unknown discovering alien worlds and races ala Star Trek.

Energy Curve: Crash land on unexplored frontier world. Exploring the world, discovering a new very alien race.

..the less obvious ones..

Kafer Dawn/Mission Arcturus: These were the early adventures when there was less known about Kafer. These lead modules were all about discovering the strange mental capacities and purposes of the Kafer. Later this material is common knowledge, but not at the start of a classic 2300AD campaign.

Nyotekundu: The plot of the primary adventure in this sourcebook was discovery of and dealing with an yet-unknown alien enigma.

Aurore Sourcebook: Exploring the Hot Back.

Ranger: While the Eber are not a newly discovered race, their culture is little known by humanity. A key to this adventure is alien contact and diplomacy; figuring out the culture of the aliens.

Kafer Sourcebook: A source for a completey unexplored corner of space (for humanity) including an undiscovered race (the Ylii).

Possibly the perception that there is nothing to discover or explore is the "small universe" nature of 2300AD vs. what we were used to in OTU's "large universe". While there ARE new worlds to explore (Bayern's journey, Kafer Space, fringe worlds such as the one in Energy Curve), lots of the "unknown" is still within human space since it was only recently settled.

 

[Colin]

From what I understand, this is not the final version of the cover.

MgT:2300 explores 3 primary themes, though others are certainly possible. The themes are exploration, military, and troubleshooting. The material in the core book supports these themes. For example, in the Colony worlds sections, there is some information for at least 1 (or more) unexplored world in each arm, and the forthcoming Arm books will include even more. There is also material for conflict-oriented adventures that have nothing to do with Kaefers, and background for troubleshooting as well.

Personally, I ran mostly Troubleshooting-style games, with some military aspects. I always found exploration to be a difficult theme to tackle, which is why I'm putting additional effort into that aspect of the game.

 

[torus]

MgT:2300 explores 3 primary themes, though others are certainly possible. The themes are exploration, military, and troubleshooting. The material in the core book supports these themes. For example, in the Colony worlds sections, there is some information for at least 1 (or more) unexplored world in each arm, and the forthcoming Arm books will include even more. There is also material for conflict-oriented adventures that have nothing to do with Kaefers, and background for troubleshooting as well.

Sounds good!

 

[Sturn]

Personally, I ran mostly Troubleshooting-style games, with some military aspects. I always found exploration to be a difficult theme to tackle, which is why I'm putting additional effort into that aspect of the game.

This pretty much describes my old campaign also. Military Troubleshooters (mercenaries), along with some illegal activities (my players were in high school or college at the time).

There was some exploration, but it was of a military nature also - Scouting for Kafers once the players got a ship. While they made it to Earth once, the players never travelled to any of the other Arms. They kept to the French Arm and its frontier (Kafer Space).

I'ts nice that Colin's new version will be less concentrated on only one Arm of space. The original releases barely touched on the American or Manchurian Arms.

 

[Pentapod earplug]

Did anyone really want to play 2300 with mirrorshades?

I did! 8) Did anyone really want to play Twilight 2000 in space? Glad to hear about the trouble shooting focus. Agree with many here that military themes were boring and exploration (e.g. Energy Curve) very tricky. Many of the later cybernetic themes were not well enough tied in to the non-core world part of the setting. But that stems more from a lack of material and the inherent difficulty in turning back time to change the first few books after the cyber wave hit the shelves. From what I read here this seems to be a balanced attempt to remedy these shortcomings.

Btw, yes that cover practically screams RAYGUN at anyone looking at it. Glad to here it is a preliminary, though acutely puzzled as to why anyone would go through the trouble of designing an inept cover as a "preliminary" in the first place. But maybe that is just me.

 

[kafka]

Glad to hear that is not the final cover. Hostile environments are the order of the day. Even worlds that are Earth-like eg Aurore would have to be quite alien.

It is not so much that 2300AD militaristic (although a permanent state of war does exist on French Arm) - it is that the frontier is dangerous hence the need to be armed at all times. Furthermore, as a legacy of the Twilight war, one never travels far without a gun, in case passive negotiation has to make way for active negotiation. Rayguns should not exist in 2300AD, save as bulky things that you could mount on Starships and even then as BSG shows missiles can be more effective. For me the vibe of 2300AD is very much like 2001 and 2010 books by Arthur C. Clarke, save, that adventurers can resort to firearms. So perhaps parts of Star Trek are good fits just providing players with the motivation of getting out there is the key - for me that was what the Foundations were all about. Setting up base camps for an ever increasing humanity which is why the cyberpunk a la Blade Runner is a desirable milieu for Earth. You want to be able to escape to the frontier. Or even as you living in a can you dream of open spaces - think of Sheppard and his "virtual" golf course in Outland (I remember playing on such a course...imagine what they could do now...).

 

[Pentapod earplug]

You want to be able to escape to the frontier. Or even as you living in a can you dream of open spaces - think of Sheppard and his "virtual" golf course in Outland (I remember playing on such a course...imagine what they could do now...).

That's it. The "cyber" theme juxtaposing the constricted and violent decay of the core with the free but law- and reckless frontier as expressed in e.g. Bladerunner is IMO very well suited to the 2300AD setting.

Personally I just skipped what I did not like (Pure military, far out exploration, and too obvious wild-west in space Americana). I wonder how this version will play out according to my preferences, but I like most of what little I have heard and hope for the best!

 

[Colin]

The problem was, the version of Earth presented in the Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook was a pretty nice place, not cyberpunk-y/Bladerunner-y at all. Thus the cyberpunk bits seemed tacked-on and ill-thought out. I have the luxury of designing the Core from the start, and while it ain't cyberpunk (the '80s are quite dead...) it ain't Star Trek Federation either.

 

[zero]

Post-cyberpunk is still a viable look to check out.

Of course now, we're stepping into post-post-cyberpunk works in scifi now that the days of GITS:SAC are done :lol:

 

[apoc527]

I'm curious how 2300AD deals with biotechnology, computers, and nanotech. I know NOTHING about 2300 AD save that it uses a "stutterwarp" engine and there are some nasty critters called "kafers" that are mean to people.

NOT that I'm looking for an interstellar Eclipse Phase, but I'm always curious how "redone" sci-fi settings deal with what is very obviously different assumptions based on where tech was going when they were written versus where tech is going now.

I think Deus Ex Human Revolution has a great flavor to it...

 

[Rick]

The cyberpunk book for the game always seemed to me like a poor fit - the technology in it seemed to be at least as advanced as the main traveller game and I had a hard time reconciling that advanced a tech that had no surviving analogue in Traveller.

 

[Sturn]

The problem was, the version of Earth presented in the Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook was a pretty nice place, not cyberpunk-y/Bladerunner-y at all. Thus the cyberpunk bits seemed tacked-on and ill-thought out. I have the luxury of designing the Core from the start, and while it ain't cyberpunk (the '80s are quite dead...) it ain't Star Trek Federation either.

I remember when Earth/Cyberpunk came out thinking, "why don't the military have neural jacks and such to connect into their tanks, walkers, etc?" I have notes on jacked drivers, aircraft pilots, walker pilots in my old books to reconcile the new info with the old. After the reconciliation everything seemed fine to me - Cybperpunk hi-tech Core versus gritty lo-tech Frontier with some imported hi-tech mixed in.

I see what you mean about the description of life on Earth not being very cyberpunkish even within the Earth/Cyberpunk book - long life spans, plentiful food, most everyone has a high degree of education, etc. A tweaking of this would be nice - higher class enjoys all of this but the lower class does not. Then it would fit right in with the idea of the less wealthy on Earth wishing to get away to the freedom of the Frontier even if it means a harsh environment.

 

[kafka]

The problem was, the version of Earth presented in the Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook was a pretty nice place, not cyberpunk-y/Bladerunner-y at all. Thus the cyberpunk bits seemed tacked-on and ill-thought out. I have the luxury of designing the Core from the start, and while it ain't cyberpunk (the '80s are quite dead...) it ain't Star Trek Federation either.

I will look forward to your take on it. I can only judge once I see it.

However, I think the original GDW's Earth was of two mindsets. One was provide a logical course of world history up to 2300AD which conformed with the rosy picture but the other was to have a dark underbelly. How I reconciled the two visions was to take the cue from cyberpunk 2020 - immediately landing on Earth you saw the chrome of world that had put things behind it yet as looked more carefully you began to see the tarnish. Furthermore, there is always a certain amount of nostalgia of anyone returning to Earth after being on the Frontier will always look at Earth through rose tinted glasses. Akin to the Englishman who returns from abroad and complains about it would have been nice save all the bleedin' foreigners and because everything is so perfect in England.

 

[gloomhound]

I don't care for the cover at all. It just could not look more generic and less evocative of the setting.

One can only hope the rest of the book does not disappoint as well.

 

[zero]

I like the cover, personally. Has a quality to the artwork similar to the Cthulhutech covers, that are constantly excellent.

The only thing is the title looks a little super-imposed, but the actual artwork is great.

 

[Pentapod earplug]

The problem was, the version of Earth presented in the Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook was a pretty nice place, not cyberpunk-y/Bladerunner-y at all. Thus the cyberpunk bits seemed tacked-on and ill-thought out. I have the luxury of designing the Core from the start, and while it ain't cyberpunk (the '80s are quite dead...) it ain't Star Trek Federation either.

Good, getting better.

 

[Wil Mireu]

Very good to hear that the cover will be replaced. I suspect that wasn't the original plan, but if pressure from here has convinced Mongoose to redo it then all the better. Hopefully the new one will be more illustrative of the setting.

 

[GJD]

The Eart/Cybertech stuff was tacked on as a response to the poularity of Cyberpunk 2020 (and the first version, Cyberpunk: 2013) and later Shadowrun. When they were released they were hugely popular, and took a big chunk of an already small market. GDW sought to ride the wave, with both the 2300Ad cybertech stuff and, to a lesser extenst, with the cyberpunk/horror in Dark Conspiracy.

As cyberpunk sourcebooks, they aren't bad. Rotten to the Core is a ctually a pretty good guide to a nicely cyberpunk city in Libreville with a servicable adventure tacked on, and the Deathwatch Program is a pretty good adventure with a couple of good NPC's.

The problem was that it was a 180 degree change of direction for the line, which up until then had been about alien worlds, exploration and the fight against the Kafer threat. Groups that may have been on an epic voyage with the Bayern, or fighting Kafers in the Auroran hotback just weren't interested in console cowboys and jacked-in cyberguns, and the people who were were already playing Cyberpunk and Shadowrun.

Oddly enough, the games of 2300AD I ran and played in already contained many of the themes that would go on to be central to cyberpunk games - the dystopia, imbalance of wealth, corporate greed, social unrest and rampant technological proliferation, so we were in some ways already using 2300ad to play cyberpunk stlye games.

G.

 

[Lysander]

Don't care for the draft cover. I'd buy it in spite of it....but it wasn't doing the game any favors. Total disconnect with the product.

Bought Colin's 2320 in PDF a few years ago -it was quite good. Colin does great work and I am confident of the quality of the content (except the interior art which is generally bad in MgT).

BTW, surprised some here think the Kafers aren't interesting...our group imported them into our Traveller game some 20 years ago. We love the Kafers....dead preferably.