2300AD - A suggestion

[TrippyHippy]

That's the print run, but graph it by year:

View attachment 5305

Traveller was no longer the best selling rulesset. Twilight: 2000 overtook Traveller in 1985-6. Remember, this is all materials, including supplements etc.

Well, the claim was that Twilight: 2000 was GDW’s biggest selling game. It clearly wasn’t over time and the chart doesn’t include the data following 1986 - Mega Traveller was released in 1987 as a replacement new edition of Traveller and, I’d imagine at least would have overtaken Twilight: 2000 sales again. Classic Traveller probably wasn’t producing much new stuff in 1985 and 1986 to sell.

Either way, Twilight 2000 in no way replicated the overall success of Traveller, even when it was first released. GDW as a whole had declining sales from the late 80s onwards.

 

[Avollant]

what really killed GDW was the Desert Storm Factbook, much more so than the lawsuit, and the reason for the Desert Storm Factbook was the out of the park succsess of the Desert Shield Factbook. that made them more money than they knew what to do with.

I recommend Shannon Applecline's EXCELLENT book "This is Free Trader Beowulf: a System History of Traveller" for a really fascinating in depth history of what happened.

I agree

 

[boggo2300]

Well, the claim was that Twilight: 2000 was GDW’s biggest selling game. It clearly wasn’t over time and the chart doesn’t include the data following 1986 - Mega Traveller was released in 1987 as a replacement new edition of Traveller and, I’d imagine at least would have overtaken Twilight: 2000 sales again. Classic Traveller probably wasn’t producing much new stuff in 1985 and 1986 to sell.

Either way, Twilight 2000 in no way replicated the overall success of Traveller, even when it was first released. GDW as a whole had declining sales from the late 80s onwards.

Don't put words in my mouth I didn't say or even imply "over time" I said it was their biggest selling game while 2300AD was out, and it was. It would be silly to expect a game on sale for 3 years during an industry downturn to sell more copies than something that had been on sale for a decade, most of which was during the industries BOOM period...

 

[TrippyHippy]

Don't put words in my mouth I didn't say or even imply "over time" I said it was their biggest selling game while 2300AD was out, and it was. It would be silly to expect a game on sale for 3 years during an industry downturn to sell more copies than something that had been on sale for a decade, most of which was during the industries BOOM period...

You said, and I quote:

Twilight was, I think it may have been GDW's biggest selling game

It wasn’t.

 

[boggo2300]

You said, and I quote:

It wasn’t.

yes it was, look at the chart for 2 of the three years that were being discussed it outsold Traveller

 

[TrippyHippy]

yes it was, look at the chart for 2 of the three years that were being discussed it outsold Traveller

No it wasn’t. Look at the overall numbers and learn to add up. It doesn’t even come close and it doesn’t even get to the point of taking into account the release of Mega Traveller or any other later editions of Traveller from 1987 onwards which all add to the tally. Twilight 2000 may have had a slight, temporary overtaking when the Classic Traveller line was ending after a near decade of sales -but that is it. Moreover, you didn’t specify anything about particular years - you simply made the broad claim, as quoted, that Twilight: 2000 was "GDW’s biggest selling game”. Your arguments here are utterly jejune. Stop wasting my day.

 

[sda5691]

Another several thoughts...

1. A series of Chinese Arm adventures... that actually involve the Chinese [OK, Manchurians, but you get my point]
2. A cohesive American Arm campaign, perhaps some Aussie vs. America shenanigans. Just because they're allies doesn't mean that they don't have cross-cutting agendas.
3. A comprehensive anti-terrorist campaign that shadows the Kafer War. 'We're not fighting bugs, we're fighting us!'
4. Adventures that address some of the political tensions... Germany trying to woo Bavarian colonies into the fold, Mexico getting sucked into a Rio Plata War, the Manchurian effort to deal with its warlord problems, etc.
5. The first Russian colony effort
6. A series of sourcebooks dealing multi-nats, terrorist groups, criminal cartels etc.
And basically anything that doesn't deal with the French Empire, direct combat with Kafers, or AmeriCo.

Also, a clear statement as to whether or not Colin Dunn's 2320 is canon or not.

Colin himself, sadly, has disavowed 2320AD. Whether Mongoose goes with that or not is up to them, as is every other question- as the IP holder- regarding what is canon.

 

[ottarrus]

Colin himself, sadly, has disavowed 2320AD. Whether Mongoose goes with that or not is up to them, as is every other question- as the IP holder- regarding what is canon.

He was going through a really tough part of his life when he was writing it, so I can see where he may not think it was his best work.
And let's be honest here.... solving the 'Kafer problem' with a bioweapon isn't exactly the most ethical solution. It's the most realistic, but if you have any moral convictions at all it takes some real rationalizing to justify.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Many better solutions were offered, you may still be able to see the discussions on CotI. My two favourites:

the use of coffee to permanently trigger Kafer intelligence

Pentapods manufacture of a drug gland leach to either keep the Kafer docile or raise them to intelligence then bargain with their leaders...