World Generation

[captainjack23]

With the deepest respect, if you can't make sense of these results, you should perhaps play something else.

On the contrary. The neccessary gamemastering skill: Superrationalization must be learned where it is not given, and he has taken the first steps on the path to illumination by consulting the masters of that strange art ! Ask questions, trawl the intarwebz, read SF , watch SF, run games.

(and note, I'm only sort of kidding - playing the "what does this UWP mean is a learned skill, and part of the fun of the game -but a part that isn't explicitly noted. Lord knows I had to do it to figure it out.)

 

[captainjack23]

From Rancke over on COTI:

Random generation is a good servant but a lousy master.

 

[rust]

From Rancke over on COTI:

Random generation is a good servant but a lousy master.

Well, I would not like a servant who keeps telling me nonsense all day
and expects me to get some semblance of reason into that ...

 

[DFW]

From Rancke over on COTI:

Random generation is a good servant but a lousy master.

Well, I would not like a servant who keeps telling me nonsense all day
and expects me to get some semblance of reason into that ...

GIGO

 

[captainjack23]

From Rancke over on COTI:

Random generation is a good servant but a lousy master.

Well, I would not like a servant who keeps telling me nonsense all day
and expects me to get some semblance of reason into that ...

Well, if the servant did that all the time, yes and yes. But if you acted like to had to do what he said, who really is the master ? "its a poor craftsman who blames his tools". If you're looking for a 100% accurate completely unsupervised system, it doesn't exist. (and if it does, I want it !)

Plus, are you actually of the opinion that the worldgen only produces nonsense ? Honestly, I don't want to fill the post with statistical calculations, but the results that most people point to as nonsense are pretty low probability events.

 

[rust]

Plus, are you actually of the opinion that the worldgen only produces nonsense ?

No, but more nonsense than useful results.

Even if the majority of individual worlds is more or less useful, their com-
bination into a region usually creates an assortment of difficult to explain
implausibilities - just think of the proverbial hell hole with billions of inha-
bitants next to the almost uninhabited garden world.

I very much prefer regions with a plausible history of colonization and de-
velopment and plausible political and economic relations, where the obvi-
ous implausible developments remain exceptions and do not become the
standard.

Of course, I can modify the random generation results in order to avoid
the usual interstellar freak show. But if I have to do this, I can just as well
skip the dice rolling entirely and move on to "Intelligent Design" by choo-
sing the results that make sense for the setting from the tables.

 

[captainjack23]

Plus, are you actually of the opinion that the worldgen only produces nonsense ?

No, but more nonsense than useful results.

Even if the majority of individual worlds is more or less useful, their com-
bination into a region usually creates an assortment of difficult to explain
implausibilities - just think of the proverbial hell hole with billions of inha-
bitants next to the almost uninhabited garden world.

I very much prefer regions with a plausible history of colonization and de-
velopment and plausible political and economic relations, where the obvi-
ous implausible developments remain exceptions and do not become the
standard.

Of course, I can modify the random generation results in order to avoid
the usual interstellar freak show. But if I have to do this, I can just as well
skip the dice rolling entirely and move on to "Intelligent Design" by choo-
sing the results that make sense for the setting from the tables.

Understood. Obviously we disagree about what the acceptable level for nonsense is, but equally obviously, you are using the system in a manner consistent with its intent: not at all when you alrady have a vision of what you want. Bravo !

Me, I like looking at a scramble, and making sense of it. But then, I also like brussel sprouts. Go figure.

 

[BP]

Brussel sprouts blow!

 

[captainjack23]

Brussel sprouts blow!

:? you seem to know different brussel sprouts than I do....... :wink:

 

[BP]

Green, miniature, cabbage-like, organic structures with a repulsive aftertaste?

 

[rust]

Me, I like looking at a scramble, and making sense of it.

Strangely, I like that, too, but only as a separate game, never for the
design of a setting. It helps to come up with new ideas for those weird
exceptions and mysteries all settings should have, but I prefer to write
them into the setting by design, not by chance.

Oh, and I also like brussel sprouts, preferably baked in butter with little
pieces of bacon ... 8)

 

[BP]

The biggest believability issue with the worldgen UWP is probably the Population stat - since it has no modifiers (especially for atmo), nor sufficient TL modifiers for it or TL...

This ignores the larger system gen issues and inability to create rational seeming trade routes (irrational can always be 'rationalized' away as long as everyone participating is willing to stretch their suspenders of disbelief enough).

 

[BP]

...Oh, and I also like brussel sprouts, preferably baked in butter with little pieces of bacon ... 8)

Ah - most folks like butter and bacon!

 

[captainjack23]

Oh, and I also like brussel sprouts, preferably baked in butter with little
pieces of bacon ... 8)

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Bacon......... 8)

 

[captainjack23]

The biggest believability issue with the worldgen UWP is probably the Population stat - since it has no modifiers (especially for atmo), nor sufficient TL modifiers for it or TL...

This ignores the larger system gen issues and inability to create rational seeming trade routes (irrational can always be 'rationalized' away as long as everyone participating is willing to stretch their suspenders of disbelief enough).

Without starting any kind of a flame war, I've always thought that a fundamental and unspoken axiom of the system is "humans will live anywhere, move anywhere and work anywhere" which is to say, habitibility is expressly decoupled from habitation. It certainly is part of the genre it seeks to emulate. Look at niven's known space, for instance.

Traderoutes, though ? Aieee. Theres more,but I don't want to toss a molotail into an otherwise civilized discussion..

 

[BP]

... axiom of the system is "humans will live anywhere, move anywhere and work anywhere" which is to say, habitibility is expressly decoupled from habitation...

Quite true!

However, as this is an axiom - a starting point from which other statements are logically derived - one normally accepted 'corollary' would be that technology is the decoupling mechanism.

Thus - 'biggest believability issue with the worldgen' - that being a relative statement, not an absolute - and TL mods...

 

[BP]

P.S. - Quite enjoy Niven's works, but don't recall many unbreathable atmo - no TL worlds with baseline humans... :?

 

[rust]

P.S. - Quite enjoy Niven's works, but don't recall many unbreathable atmo - no TL worlds with baseline humans... :?

This would hardly be possible, because the colony slowboats followed the
information of the robot probes that already had scanned the target pla-
nets and found at least one region where humans could live without the
need of closed habitats - only a rare failure of this system could strand
humans on a truly uninhabitable planet, and in most such cases the co-
lony would have disappeared very soon.

 

[BP]

... only a rare failure of this system could strand
humans on a truly uninhabitable planet...

Ah - the astrogation computer failed and there was no human backup! :lol:

 

[rust]

Ah - the astrogation computer failed and there was no human backup! :lol:

Or, instead of repairing the astrogation computer, they let the human
backup do the calculations ...