Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
If possible, could you provide any examples please? Or discuss any relevant ideas that you may have encountered.
Where in Traveller literature do the design or use of TL 14 flying cities appear?
- Thread starter Limpin Legin
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Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Thanks. Depends on how you qualify a city, I suppose. An Emperor should be able to qualify a city status and use it as his home address.
High Guard only says a Space Station can be qualified as a Starport - no mention of it being a city.
In the UK, "city status" only used to be conferred if it contained a cathedral. The rules changed a hundred years ago, and now a city can be just "big" to qualify. That piece of info raised my eyebrow, and I am also now wondering what a Space Station with a cathedral would function like? Would a space station ever be "big" enough to qualify as a city habitat?
Work on Vantage sounds interesting. But only one city of that type in the entire Traveller Universe sounds a bit underwhelming. Are they practically difficult to live in and maintain? CRB does say "flying cities will appear" as if to suggest it is a pluralistic happening; yet there is little evidence of it's anticipated plurality.
Anyway, the next problem I have is whether being in "geostationary orbit" is really the same as "flying," but yes, if "flying" is a necessary qualification, then the VH book should be the ideal place to discuss the options, advantages and disadvantages.
Edited Note: Actually, TC 2024 does mention a "Grav Station ... up to city size" at TL 10. Doesn't say why this is now offered at TL 10 instead of TL 14. And I wish it said more about what such a city should look like.
High Guard only says a Space Station can be qualified as a Starport - no mention of it being a city.
In the UK, "city status" only used to be conferred if it contained a cathedral. The rules changed a hundred years ago, and now a city can be just "big" to qualify. That piece of info raised my eyebrow, and I am also now wondering what a Space Station with a cathedral would function like? Would a space station ever be "big" enough to qualify as a city habitat?
Work on Vantage sounds interesting. But only one city of that type in the entire Traveller Universe sounds a bit underwhelming. Are they practically difficult to live in and maintain? CRB does say "flying cities will appear" as if to suggest it is a pluralistic happening; yet there is little evidence of it's anticipated plurality.
Anyway, the next problem I have is whether being in "geostationary orbit" is really the same as "flying," but yes, if "flying" is a necessary qualification, then the VH book should be the ideal place to discuss the options, advantages and disadvantages.
Edited Note: Actually, TC 2024 does mention a "Grav Station ... up to city size" at TL 10. Doesn't say why this is now offered at TL 10 instead of TL 14. And I wish it said more about what such a city should look like.
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Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Definitions matter, and too many people have varying definitions.
California defines a city as an incorporated urban area, regardless of size. Vernon, California is a city of 200 people.
High Guard '22 lists the qualifications for a station's grade. Among those are industrial, commercial and residential capacity. Class A status requires 10k tons of residential, which would house 2,500 people in standard accommodations. Most people would consider a Class A port to be equal to a city. Thus, a permanent population exceeding 2,500 people, with the production and shops to support and employ them would suffice.
At one kilometer in diameter, something equal to the Grand Palace of Arbellatra would certainly qualify.
California defines a city as an incorporated urban area, regardless of size. Vernon, California is a city of 200 people.
High Guard '22 lists the qualifications for a station's grade. Among those are industrial, commercial and residential capacity. Class A status requires 10k tons of residential, which would house 2,500 people in standard accommodations. Most people would consider a Class A port to be equal to a city. Thus, a permanent population exceeding 2,500 people, with the production and shops to support and employ them would suffice.
At one kilometer in diameter, something equal to the Grand Palace of Arbellatra would certainly qualify.
Considering that one of the standard components available for space station is residential space, it'd be pretty easy to design a station which could (on population) qualify as a city - just define the population level to be a city, and build to that. Other qualifications could also be accommodated - a certain level of infrastructure (manufacturing and other production facilities) and/or commerce (commercial space). Once you reach a certain level of permanent population and/or facilities, you've got a city in fact, whether or not it's in name.
Once Geir gets the revised Vehicle Handbook to the necessary level of completion, using that to design "floating cities" shouldn't be any more difficult, especially if he sets the rules up so that vehicles can use spaceship/spaceport components.
Once Geir gets the revised Vehicle Handbook to the necessary level of completion, using that to design "floating cities" shouldn't be any more difficult, especially if he sets the rules up so that vehicles can use spaceship/spaceport components.
bartlebyfosco
Mongoose
The first I recall seeing flying cities was back in MegaTraveller. Tech Level E had anti-grav cities.
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Edit Note: No!! E = 14 . No change. My bad. But ditto note from post #3 with TL 10 seemingly, without explanation, contradicting the TL14 stipulation for "flying cities."
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bartlebyfosco
Mongoose
The DGP World Builders Handbook had orbital cities tied to orbital starports at TL9+ (and some other qualifications).
J. L. Brown
Emperor Mongoose
Gravitics technology gains widespread acceptance and usage at TL 9. This includes contra-gravity (reducing the felt-force of a gravity vector in a particular volume, possibly down to 'zero'), anti-gravity (where the felt-force of a gravity vector in a volume goes into negative values), artificial gravity (where some 'gravity like' force vector is felt inside the affected volume, especially of no such force would otherwise be felt), repulsor-lift (where energy is applied to counter changes to a particular gravity gradient across a volume, neither rising nor falling, but actively holding position), gravity drive and acceleration compensators.
Traveller has been loathe to define these as individual capabilities, or to establish performance / capability limits for each tech level. Still, after TL 9 every imaginable use of gravitics technology should be commonplace. That would seem to include flying cities.
Traveller has been loathe to define these as individual capabilities, or to establish performance / capability limits for each tech level. Still, after TL 9 every imaginable use of gravitics technology should be commonplace. That would seem to include flying cities.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
High Guard technological level nine onwards, manoeuvre drive factor/one.
In theory, early prototype technological level seven, disadvantage orbital range, if it wasn't for the price tag times eleven, and doubling volume.
Assuming Terran norm gravity and below.
In theory, early prototype technological level seven, disadvantage orbital range, if it wasn't for the price tag times eleven, and doubling volume.
Assuming Terran norm gravity and below.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
NASA envisions a floating city above Venus’ clouds
NASA envisions a mission to Venus that could eventually result in the construction of a floating city of solar-powered airships above Venus’ clouds where humans could be able to live permanently.
Venus’ surface, unlike Mars, is nearly impossible to visit. Probes that have been sent to explore the planet have been destroyed in no more than two hours by Venus’ extreme conditions.
The planet has an atmospheric pressure up to 92 times greater than Earth's, a temperature of 462 degrees Celsius, and an atmosphere mostly made of carbon dioxide with a cloud layer made up of sulphuric acid.
To make exploration of Venus possible, NASA is thinking about developing a floating city above the planet’s clouds at an altitude of around 50 kilometers, where conditions are more similar to Earth.
NASA has named the project The High Altitude Venus Operation Concept, or HAVOC.
First NASA would send a robotic scout to determine the lay of the land. Then it would send a crew on a 30-day mission. The crew would float above the planet a 130-metre-long zeppelin-style helium ship.
The zeppelin would be accompanied on its explorations by a smaller 31-metre robotic solar-powered helium airship.
If successful, teams of two astronauts would each spend a year floating above the planet.
Eventually, in a more distant future, NASA would construct a floating city of airships for a permanent human presence.
To develop the mission, NASA plans to use current or upcoming technology, although it is a decade or two away from being able to launch such as mission.
1. Gigantic zeppelin with solar panels.
2. Uninsurable.
3. Steampunk era.
NASA envisions a mission to Venus that could eventually result in the construction of a floating city of solar-powered airships above Venus’ clouds where humans could be able to live permanently.
Venus’ surface, unlike Mars, is nearly impossible to visit. Probes that have been sent to explore the planet have been destroyed in no more than two hours by Venus’ extreme conditions.
The planet has an atmospheric pressure up to 92 times greater than Earth's, a temperature of 462 degrees Celsius, and an atmosphere mostly made of carbon dioxide with a cloud layer made up of sulphuric acid.
To make exploration of Venus possible, NASA is thinking about developing a floating city above the planet’s clouds at an altitude of around 50 kilometers, where conditions are more similar to Earth.
NASA has named the project The High Altitude Venus Operation Concept, or HAVOC.
First NASA would send a robotic scout to determine the lay of the land. Then it would send a crew on a 30-day mission. The crew would float above the planet a 130-metre-long zeppelin-style helium ship.
The zeppelin would be accompanied on its explorations by a smaller 31-metre robotic solar-powered helium airship.
If successful, teams of two astronauts would each spend a year floating above the planet.
Eventually, in a more distant future, NASA would construct a floating city of airships for a permanent human presence.
To develop the mission, NASA plans to use current or upcoming technology, although it is a decade or two away from being able to launch such as mission.
1. Gigantic zeppelin with solar panels.
2. Uninsurable.
3. Steampunk era.
collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
Floating Palace was constructed 629-633 so Imperium was at TL13
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Hi, which sourcebook was that from? In case I was interested in following it up.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
The Floating Palace of Drinax is a floating city of about 30,000 people, but it is TL-15
ThornPlutonius
Mongoose
The poster child for flying cities is James Blish's "Cities in Flight" series of novels.
collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
This is from Travellers Digest No9 by DGP (a MegaTrav era product).
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Reactionary rockets.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Vincennes, from the Wiki,
"The Grav Cities[edit]
Forty-three gravitic cities hover over the planet's surface, with three having populations over 100 million.
Grav cities include:
"The Grav Cities[edit]
Forty-three gravitic cities hover over the planet's surface, with three having populations over 100 million.
Grav cities include:
- Dumorov: Cone-shaped, hovers over the Kehmed metroplex
- Foxhunter
- Malin Tekhar: Sphere-shaped, administrative city
- Melchen: Disk-shaped, a tourist city"
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