What would you do IF...?

[Jak Nazryth]

You had the chance to remake Traveller?
What would you change?
I'm not talking about small changes, I'm talking about major changes.
When I started playing in 1980, Traveller was described as the "wild west" of Sci-fi future. Mark Miller initially wanted the look and feel of the late 1800's with a crew aboard a tramp steamer meandering the back waters of far flung ports off the beaten path with all the adventures that might happen on the open seas, or distant "uncivilized" ports of call etc.. I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason there seems to have been a bit of a drift from the original concept Mark had way back in the mid-to late 70's. Maybe because of obvious changes in technology...

After a long absence from the game, then consensus now seams to be Traveller represents the age of sail. That is a minor change I'm still not quite use to.
However, if you had a chance to "re-imagine" traveller, from the very beginning, what would you change? Including the "history" mark miller invented.
Would you change the role of earth and other major human races, including the history?
Would you change the 1 week per jump?
Would you change the 10% rule for fuel during jump?
Would you change the technology that does not allow "subspace"/"instant" communication prevalent in other sci-fi settings?
Would you change the large cumbersome Feudal system of the 3rd Emperium?
Would you change psionics?
Would you make the "look and feel" of your version of traveller more like one of your favorite series of shows, movies, or books?

Don't want to start a long argument/discussion over existing or past rules, but more of a "What would you do if you could scrap the whole thing and start from scratch?

 

[Hopeless]

I'd like a setting based on the solar system making use of such ideas as that supplement about Vacc Suits and the Mars idea.

Who'd fancy a series of books based around a certain world or even the asteroid belt?

What lies out by and beyond Pluto?

What do we actually know about our solar system and for that matter what about a Seaquest style setting where humanity develops the 70% part of the world's surface?

Gurps did Transhuman Space but there have been series dealing with this kind of idea, Space Cops, Dan Dare, Planet Survive (Japanese series about a group who end up on an alien world that can support life and how they deal with the situation) sorry I figured i'd expand beyond the core rules part.

 

[F33D]

You had the chance to remake Traveller?
What would you change?
I'm not talking about small changes, I'm talking about major changes.

I would at least bring all tech level quip that is above 7 up to at LEAST up to late TL 7 standards. :lol:

 

[dragoner]

Coming from an engineering background, the age of sail feel is something I've never done, and I've been playing since '81. It isn't 'ship' really, it's spacecraft, a fourth type of vehicle designed to operate outside atmosphere, and have made it so that the prevailing attitude is of "Dirtside" and "Starside" or spacer. I also use TL as an arbitrary non-scientific system created by a TL15 bureaucrat, so what they are saying, it doesn't always make sense in reality. The changes I have done are the changes I want, right now, I'm mixing transhumanism from eclipse phase into my game.

 

[alex_greene]

However, if you had a chance to "re-imagine" traveller, from the very beginning, what would you change? Including the "history" mark miller invented.
Would you change the role of earth and other major human races, including the history?
Would you change the 1 week per jump?
Would you change the 10% rule for fuel during jump?
Would you change the technology that does not allow "subspace"/"instant" communication prevalent in other sci-fi settings?
Would you change the large cumbersome Feudal system of the 3rd Emperium?
Would you change psionics?
Would you make the "look and feel" of your version of traveller more like one of your favorite series of shows, movies, or books?

1. Core rules, no setting material. That way you can run any number of different games off the one core rulebook - same schtick as for the World of Darkness / Vampire: the Requiem and so on.
2. Tweaks to the game: Traveller Modern (set on Earth, different time zones); Traveller Supers (characters are superheroes / villains); Traveller Planar (the setting involves time or dimensional travel); Traveller Psi (the emphasis is on psionics over the material) and so on.
3. Tweaks to Jump: Jump takes up 10% of the engine size per jump made; Jump doesn't last one week, but can last several weeks - the Jump rating only determines how far you can travel in parsecs during a Jump whose duration the pilot sets; different quanta of Jump - Q0 (puddle jumper; allow small craft to Jump), Q1 (standard, as described above), Q2 (Jumps measured in tens of thousands of parsecs, allowing for intragalactic travel), Q3 (Jumps measured in millions of parsecs, allowing for intergalactic travel), perhaps Q4 (permitting Jump travel to any part of the observable universe, making maps pretty much obsolete).
4. Tweaks to Chargen: Transhumanism is an option. Rules for stats greater than 15, particularly INT/EDU 16+, Ozymandias syndrome, with benefits to learning skills based on high Edu / Int (high Int allows more rapid learning, and high Edu allows a positive DM to the learning roll.
5. Changes to Psionics: So, so many flaws with the current dreadful afterthought that is the psionics system writeup. I'd have to write up the changes in a separate response, or even thread.
6. No official setting. No 3I means no grognards complaining about how the current version of the game is so different to all the other versions.

Those are the only ones I can think of for now.

 

[F33D]

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6. No official setting. No 3I means no grognards complaining about how the current version of the game is so different to all the other versions.

Those are the only ones I can think of for now.

2nd that!

 

[alex_greene]

A Referee's guide would be good.

Not the Campaign Guide - that's just follow-the-tables. A guide to give Referees ideas on how to create compelling settings, how to scale games from one-shots to mini-series to full campaigns, through to tournament play, the dynastic campaign (not a campaign about dynasties, but one which is handed down for new players to continue to play in, or even reboot, once the original players retire), running online games via Play By Email, Play By Instant Chat, Play By Google Hangouts etc.

The Referee's Guide should also show the Referees where the setting levers are, so he can twesk the feel, the mood, the ambient tech of the story like a graphic equalizer, allowing him to tweak the mechanics from the Core Rulebook to allow things like a grav-heavy or grav-poor setting, a psi-heavy or psi-poor setting, running scenarios and campaigns steeped in money and prestige and backstabbing betrayal, or running stories right down in the dirt, scrabbling for cash which always seems to be in other people's pockets.

Some sort of sourcebook that can allow a Referee to create unique, memorable and enjoyable settings, each of which could have a different feel and look, should be considered essential; a new Book (Book 10: Referee perhaps?), rather than a new Supplement.

 

[Prime_Evil]

6. No official setting. No 3I means no grognards complaining about how the current version of the game is so different to all the other versions.

I don't mind the concept of an official setting per se, but I think that the OTU has become the tail that wags the dog. The OTU has some great features, but increasingly it looks very dated - it reflects the sensibilities and concerns of mainstream SF of the 1960s and early 1970s. And literary SF has moved on from the days when space opera was a dominated by the authors such as Poul Anderson, Jack Vance, E.C. Tubb, and A. Bertram Chandler. While these authors were great in there day, you can't incorporate any modern space opera influences without incurring the wrath of those grognards who see themselves as the guardians of canon. Where are the influences of more recent space opera authors such as Iain M. Banks, Neal Asher, Peter F. Hamilton, Alatair Reynolds, Stephen Baxter, Jon Scalzi, Richard Morgan, John Meaney, Charles Stross, Walter Jon Williams, etc.

One approach that might be viable would be to develop a new campaign setting based in the Fourth Imperium that reflects contemporary SF influences in the way that the Third Imperium reflected the influences of the 1970s when Larry Niven's Known Space stories were cutting edge stuff....

 

[alex_greene]

6. No official setting. No 3I means no grognards complaining about how the current version of the game is so different to all the other versions.

One approach that might be viable would be to develop a new campaign setting based in the Fourth Imperium that reflects contemporary SF influences in the way that the Third Imperium reflected the influences of the 1970s when Larry Niven's Known Space stories were cutting edge stuff....

I think that was the point, unfortunately.

 

[Nuclear Fridge Magnet]

"No official setting"... I still have the majority of the GDW and Games Workshop-licensed books I bought back in the 80s, and the 3rd Imperium is a pervasive element of almost all of them. I'm not just talking about the 'Library Data' books, either.

So, no official setting? That's a possible avenue, but... you'll still have the grognards screaming blue murder and you'll have others complaining that they don't want to have to spend time & effort creating every last aspect of a campaign setting from the ground up. :roll:

 

[Prime_Evil]

6. No official setting. No 3I means no grognards complaining about how the current version of the game is so different to all the other versions.

One approach that might be viable would be to develop a new campaign setting based in the Fourth Imperium that reflects contemporary SF influences in the way that the Third Imperium reflected the influences of the 1970s when Larry Niven's Known Space stories were cutting edge stuff....

I think that was the point, unfortunately.

I find it interesting that many grognards are willing to admit some contemporary SF influences from American military SF (e.g. David Weber) - provided that the political stance is conservative or vaguely libertarian. However, they are often uncomfortable with alternative political structures such as the anarchist utopia of Iain Bank's Culture or the demarchist republic of Alastair Reynolds. The idea that technological change and social change are often linked is vaguely threatening, as is the notion that the future might not be dominated by Western cultural norms. The feudal culture of the 3I is reassuring not only because it represents a static political and social order that reflects classic SF tropes, but also because it offers a cultural model recognizably based upon Western history - Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Arabic, Russian, and Latino influences on mainstream imperial culture are conspicuous by their absence. One of the most interesting features of literary SF since the cyberpunk boom of the 1980's is the increasing prominence of non-Western viewpoints. However, such viewpoints are very rare in the OTU and are often reduced to cariacatures when they do appear. Where are the blacks of the Third Imperium? How often do non-Western characters appear in the artwork of Traveller books? Why isn't there a strong Asian influence on Imperial culture given the demographics of Earth before contact with the Vilani? Why is the official language of the third imperium Anglic rather a descendent of Mandarin or Hindi?

 

[F33D]

and you'll have others complaining that they don't want to have to spend time & effort creating every last aspect of a campaign setting from the ground up. :roll:

A major reason that that is the case is because Marc is a technophobe. He simply won't allow computerized GM aides for "universe creation" to be marketed. Someone will end up designing a Traveller like game using the SRD WITH software And that will be that.

 

[Prime_Evil]

"No official setting"... I still have the majority of the GDW and Games Workshop-licensed books I bought back in the 80s, and the 3rd Imperium is a pervasive element of almost all of them. I'm not just talking about the 'Library Data' books, either.

So, no official setting? That's a possible avenue, but... you'll still have the grognards screaming blue murder and you'll have others complaining that they don't want to have to spend time & effort creating every last aspect of a campaign setting from the ground up. :roll:

I think that the setting material should be moved into a separate book. I've still got many of the LBB's and my impression is that the importance of the 3rd Imperium setting to the rules grew over time...until the OTU and the Traveller brand were largely synonymous by the time that Megatraveller was published. I think that offering the OTU as one possible setting that you could use the ruleset in is a good idea, with a full product line supporting it!

 

[Prime_Evil]

and you'll have others complaining that they don't want to have to spend time & effort creating every last aspect of a campaign setting from the ground up. :roll:

A major reason that that is the case is because Marc is a technophobe. He simply won't allow computerized GM aides for "universe creation" to be marketed. Someone will end up designing a Traveller like game using the SRD WITH software And that will be that.

It's a pity. Traveller still offers some of the most elegant rule subsytems ever devised for an RPG and many of them lend themselves to automation. Hopefully Mongoose will update the OGC from the rules when a new edition of the core rulebook is released and we will see a broader range of third-party settings emerge - along with some software aids.

 

[dragoner]

and you'll have others complaining that they don't want to have to spend time & effort creating every last aspect of a campaign setting from the ground up. :roll:

A major reason that that is the case is because Marc is a technophobe. He simply won't allow computerized GM aides for "universe creation" to be marketed. Someone will end up designing a Traveller like game using the SRD WITH software And that will be that.

No...Traveller has all sorts of computerized aids, just not mongoose; where have you been? H&E will make whole sectors (and Traveller map will print you a pdf), not quite as good as the real thing though and it is ancient; T5 already has a shipyard, animal encounter and system generator in the works. A setting, esp one 30+ years old with a dton of official and user made stuff, will sell better than having nothing and expecting a GM to do a ton of work.

After everything has been changed, why still call it Traveller? It sounds like being a coattail rider at some point. Note that all the players in my campaign, like that mong is so close to CT. Starting with other traits and one starts essentially another game system, like Thousand Suns or Diaspora, but also don't be surprised if it is not being played, the reason I moved to mong was because there are more and more mong players, and it's not just me, we GM's and players talk about the systems amongst ourselves.

 

[alex_greene]

"No official setting"... I still have the majority of the GDW and Games Workshop-licensed books I bought back in the 80s, and the 3rd Imperium is a pervasive element of almost all of them. I'm not just talking about the 'Library Data' books, either.

So, no official setting? That's a possible avenue, but... you'll still have the grognards screaming blue murder and you'll have others complaining that they don't want to have to spend time & effort creating every last aspect of a campaign setting from the ground up. :roll:

They have to with RQ and Legend, if they don't want to play with Elric, Conan, Glorantha or the Age of Treason. They'd have to if they wanted to run a series based on, oh, the Family d'Alembert, James Schmitz' Agents of Vega or the 'Verse from Firefly.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Since you are talking from the ground up:
1.Make the rules more setting neutral.
2.Expand sections to deal with scale like animal speeds and animal sizes (I still want stats for diplodicus and blue whales)
3.Tech. Separate the "Real World Science" from the Science Fiction. Add more skills and items address TL 0-4.
4.Fix the World Generation rules to be more reflective of the current science.
5.A larger campaign section that explains the differences in campaign styles (example: "If you introduce FTL communication, consider that this means W. If not, consider this means X. If you have Jumps Space, consider Y vs Z with Hyperspace" and so on.
6.Have an expanded section for alternate Characteristics instead of Social Standing (hey, Judge Dredd has an Influence stat at least!)

Eventually, a supplement to add the wierdness of supers, magic(magic? In Traveller? hmm..), cryptozoic creatures.

More like TV shows? Firefly.

 

[F33D]

No...Traveller has all sorts of computerized aids, just not mongoose; where have you been? H&E will make

Where have I been? In Realityland of course. Where there are no maintained products of any complexity. Why is that? Because Marc won't allow licensing of commercial s/w products under any terms that allows continued success. Most likely the Mongoose's license doesn't allow them to grant commercial license under favorable market terms. Go ahead and try to make one and sell it, then get back to me...

(T5 is not a currently release commercial product yet. So, we can revisit when that is a reality.)

So, the bottom line is that the s/w products don't exist because ... Marc doesn't want them to.

 

[dragoner]

No...Traveller has all sorts of computerized aids, just not mongoose; where have you been? H&E will make

Where have I been? In Realityland of course. Where there are no maintained products of any complexity. Why is that? Because Marc won't allow licensing of commercial s/w products under any terms that allows continued success. Most likely the Mongoose's license doesn't allow them to grant commercial license under favorable market terms. Go ahead and try to make one and sell it, then get back to me...

(T5 is not a currently release commercial product yet. So, we can revisit when that is a reality.)

So, the bottom line is that the s/w products don't exist because ... Marc doesn't want them to.

There used to be plenty, if mong doesn't have them, it sounds like it's Matt, not Marc you should be directing your vitriol at. I haven't seen Marc interfere with any at all, as far as selling them....well you would have to have something actually of value to sell it. So much for realityland.

 

[F33D]

There used to be plenty, if mong doesn't have them, it sounds like it's Matt, not Marc you should be directing your vitriol at. I haven't seen Marc interfere with any at all, as far as selling them....well you would have to have something actually of value to sell it. So much for realityland.

Okay, name 3 (you said there used to be plenty) Trav s/w products that used to be sold. I'm afraid that you have no idea what you are talking about. Marc has NOT allowed 3rd party commercial Trav s/w products. What don't you understand about, "won't license 3rd party commercial s/w?

As far as is known, Mongoose's license with Marc doesn't ALLOW them to license 3rd party commercial software under the Traveller brand. So, why would I aim anything about this towards Mongoose? Can you explain why it would make sense to do so???