What sex is your avatar?

[Da Boss]

I've played men, women plus males and females from other races - if you can rp an Elf, Vulcan or as most recently a Gaim (neutered insectoid - so different and so much fun) you cna surely play a member of the opposite sex?? Getting into an alien species head surely should be harder!?

I occassionly play Guildwars - I have a stupidly large and fearsome male barbarian type and a sexy ranger /necromancer girl.

my female charcters range from sweet, through annoying to (one of my favs) depraved and psyopathic evil.

The latter character was generated when I was given a pregen D+D character who worshiped really dark gods in D+D - so i looked them up and actually worshiped them and worked to further their aims- big style - much to the suprise of the GM and other players. She was scary and completely driven - working with the party who provided both useful backup and a cover - and who never seemed to object to the things she did.

On the ther hand I played a terribly sweet and sexy Shadownrun character - who just tried to get on with everyone and had no real hidden objectives- used to confuse the hell out of the opponents!

lots of stuff in between as well..................

There are so many great female characters to inspire in the media - give it a try - its fun

 

[Demetrio]

Quite. It should be way harder to play an alien race (be it in sci-fi or fantasy) than merely the opposite sex.

There are significant and measurable differences in the way male and female brains respond to different stimuli but there is absolutley no good reason why a male cannot play a female role well or vice versa. Authors do it all the time, many actors have done it convincingly (Felicity Kendal being a recent and rather surprising example).

 

[VincentDarlage]

@Vincent

Yeah, that's some tough stuff. It's not every body's cup of tea. With some of the graphic stuff that's in Howard's writing, though, I'm surprised what I wrote got to you so much.

My point was made. There's no need to carry it on.

The only point I got was that if a man plays a woman you'll see to it they are raped to prove a point. Ugh.

Graphic description of anything but rape does not bother me.

Unexpected graphic description of rape bothers me (and your use of it here was completely unexpected and unnecessary, adding NOTHING to your argument). Rape used to justify not understanding why men might want to take on the role of a woman bothers me. The use of rape to make a point on why men shouldn't play women bothers me. Describing a rape on a forum discussing whether a dude should play a woman as his main character bothers me. Treating rape as "someone's cup of tea" bothers me. Telling me that your players play your games because they get to have rapes in their games bothers me.

One thing I like about Howard's writing is that I never have to worry about running across some graphic description of rape. The closest I recall was in A Witch Shall Be Born, but it happens off the page and is merely implied.

I have been playing for 26 years, and we get just into our roles as you describe - but I have never once, in all of those years, had to describe a rape or use a rape to motivate my players in my games. Considering the history of some of my players (esp. the girls), they don't want that in their games. Neither do I. Doesn't mean I am any less of a role-player than you, so you can stop implying such is the case.

You never responded to my actual point - that Wonder Woman, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Red Sonja and a whole host of incredible female main characters were created and written by men. Why not in an RPG?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Quite. It should be way harder to play an alien race (be it in sci-fi or fantasy) than merely the opposite sex.

There are significant and measurable differences in the way male and female brains respond to different stimuli but there is absolutley no good reason why a male cannot play a female role well or vice versa. Authors do it all the time, many actors have done it convincingly (Felicity Kendal being a recent and rather surprising example).

I agree. Good example. I was thinking of William Shatner in "Turnabout Intruder" (Star Trek, 1969). I thought he did a good job playing a girl trapped in a man's body.

 

[Supplement Four]

The only point I got was that if a man plays a woman you'll see to it they are raped to prove a point. Ugh.

Then you totally missed the point.

Graphic description of anything but rape does not bother me.

Rape bothers me, too. I think it's one of the most horrific crimes. I think the death penalty should be associated with it. When I see it in films, it affects me terribly.

Which is why it's a good tool for the GM to sometimes use. You can over use it, because your players will get numb to it. But, if the situation is right, and the story fits, it can be a very good story telling tool--as the GM who used it on me over two decades ago.

Telling me that your players play your games because they get to have rapes in their games bothers me.

Well, I guess you'll just have to be "bothered" then. Because, it has happened in our games. Not every campaign. But, it can happen.

And, because it's happened before, just the threat of it keeps my game with a strong foot in realism.

But, again, that's the attraction to the game.

One thing I like about Howard's writing is that I never have to worry about running across some graphic description of rape. The closest I recall was in A Witch Shall Be Born, but it happens off the page and is merely implied.

Plenty of other stuff is graphically described and implied in Howard's writings.

It's strange how we can read about a man getting disembowled or having his face cut through the mouth, smashing out all his teeth, and that doesn't bother us as much as a rape.

I'm the same way, though. Reading about a rape would bother me far more than reading about a grotesque maiming or killing in a fight.

Considering the history of some of my players (esp. the girls), they don't want that in their games. Neither do I. Doesn't mean I am any less of a role-player than you, so you can stop implying such is the case.

I wasn't implying that at all. I was only explaining what happens in my game and why men playing women is a bit "wierd".

You never responded to my actual point - that Wonder Woman, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Red Sonja and a whole host of incredible female main characters were created and written by men. Why not in an RPG?

Plenty of female characters are written by men. Honor Harrington is written by David Weber (and he uses rape in the second book, BTW, so fair warning if it effects you that much).

And, I've said, we've had women show up in our game, played by males.

It's just that, with main characters, the identification would be hard, I think. It would be for me. Thinking like a woman. Acting like a woman. Getting into a woman's head and having that guide how you play the character.

I think that identifcation is strange.

 

[Hervé]

Big macho style post!!!

I don't see any problem in playing a female character in RPGs. I've done it a couple of times myself, as well as most of the male players of my regular gaming group and none of us seemed to have problem with his social or sexual life after that.Playing the other sex is often less stereotyped than playing the average elf. After all, I have a more experience with women than with elves!

Of course, that may be not the case of the average roleplaying male geek... :wink:

As for the rape case, it just sucks. It's has really nothing to do with the topic and just proves the lack of maturity of its author (who apparantly thinks he has a lot). It's just like teens. They think they are adult because they watch gory movies or play bloody video games.

The horror is far more horrible when merely suggested.

Or maybe if he's having so much problem with women, he should see someone...

When I think there are people that would have liked to see me leaving this forum just because I said that D20 is a "lousy system" for Conan gaming.

I wonder where are their moderator ambitions right now....

 

[zozotroll]

I dont have darfs or Dark trolls or intelligent mansized insects running about the place, so I dont have any real standard to judge against. I do have plenty of women to observe.

For some reason, female nonhumans dont seem to atract the odd sort. Not sure why that is. And I have seen a few guys play women OK.

GMs dont count. We are so twisted up from playing so many differnet roles, many of them unpleasant it is a wonder there isnt a therapy program for old DM.

A pair of the ones who play strange women have described themselves to me as "middleaged adolecent power drinkers" And no, they where not really disruptive, just....odd.

 

[zozotroll]

On punching buttons.

You never know what somebody gets upset about, and it is worse online. You probably learn more about a person in one hour face to face than a tear online.

I startled somebody one day on a military history forum. This guy made the statment that he would sacrifice 5 of an old tank to protect a newer better one, and why didnt armys see how smart that was and keep old useless ones around to soak up bullets.

I freake dout on him. I have ran into that exact attitude from certain Officers in the army, and freely admit it is a sore point with me. The idea that the crews are of no value, and basicly are trained monkeys to be thrown away at will, never sets well with me.

But unless you know my life, there is no way to know that. Perhaps a seperate thread to discuss what is upsetting? Just a thought that needs more time.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Then you totally missed the point.

Then I'll just have to miss it.

 

[Supplement Four]

Then I'll just have to miss it. Until I receive word the graphic descriptions of rape are deleted (or buried so deep in the archives it won't surface again), either by you or a moderator, I won't be back.

Dude, now you're just being silly.

Unless you get the censorship you want, you won't be back?

C'mon, brother. I'm certainly not upset. And, I haven't responded to flame bait posts like Demetrios above.

I told you that I didn't want you to go. I also told you that, at your request, there was no more description of rape. I wasn't planning on writing more anyway, and if you go back and read what I said, I didn't go into a lot of detail. It's PG-13.

Sometimes, our own minds are worse than what we read or see. I remember the rape scene in Leaving Las Vegas. It tore me up. Nothing in a film has ever affected me like that (probably because Elizabeth Shue is so damn cute).

I went back and saw it, years later, and realized that the filmmaker played a trick on me. What I saw was mostly black screen and suggested violence. My own imagination did the rest.

This probably happened to you when reading about the Orcs.

Anyway, I don't want you to go. I'm sorry if I upset you so bad. Sincerely.

Now, settle down and let's keep talking about Conan.

 

[Hervé]

I think that actually the main problem comes from the fact you're completely out of topic.

Dude, now you're just being silly.

It is trying to justify a male can't play a woman in a RPG by giving a description of a rape that is silly, not Vincent's reaction.

You claim to be a "hardcore roleplayer" but you seem unable to take the slight step of roleplaying a woman. There is definetively something wrong with you...

Or maybe you're just provoking people, like if I said for instance that D20 sucks... :wink: Except that criticizing game mechanics seems (at least to me!) far less serious than giving a detailed description of a woman being raped on a public forum.

Maybe if you created a special topic with the warning of adult and shocking contents, the users of this forum would have accepted to talk about the usefulness of such descriptions in a RPG, but as you did it, it was seen only as a shocking provocation. For me it's quite normal that you're being blamed for your intervention.

I remind you the topic was about playing the other sex in a RPG, not testing the limits of how far you can go in a RPG. It seems to me you didn't really understand what the Conan RPG is: heroic pulp adventures.

If you want to delve deply into the horror of the human soul and use scenes that will satisfy your depraved phantasms, try another game like Kult, which was more designed in that way.

 

[Supplement Four]

Vincent and I are still friends. We shared some PMs. I deleted the section earlier in this thread at his request. We're good. He's not going anywhere.

So, you buttheads can stop with the zingers. You should know by now that it has little effect on me, having been in flame wars with me before. I typically ignore you (and probably should now), but there's no reason to fan the flames when the issue is gone.

I don't know what it is that makes people so doggone mean when they're safe, hiding behind a pseudonym and a computer monitor. You think something is wrong with me? You need to look at yourself, snarling like a wolf to get in there and get your piece of meat.

Issue over. Vincent and I are on good terms. As they say in Star Wars, "Move along. Move along."

 

[Demetrio]

For crying out loud...

You make some gross generalisations about the alleged impossibility of playing a female as a 'main character' if one is a male player and then say you're being flamed when people disagree.

To be honest, I don't really have a problem with your examples because of their content, though it is a great pity that Vincent was so upset by them. I just disagree with your assumptions.

If that's flaming in your book, consider yourself flamed.

 

[Hervé]

I don't know what it is that makes people so doggone mean when they're safe, hiding behind a pseudonym and a computer monitor. You think something is wrong with me? You need to look at yourself, snarling like a wolf to get in there and get your piece of meat.

I guess you're speaking about yourself here. I'm using my real name on this forum (something you don't) and the older users may even know the name, adress and phone number of my shop (though I had to close it recently). I don't hide from anyone and I"m no computer geek. That's what YOU do. Be sure I'll be ready to stand this kind of conversation face to face with anyone.

You're still making bravados hidden behind your computer when you should have taken a low profile, knowing that you did wrong.

Anyway I'm glad you removed your post. That was the best thing to do. So we can stop about this and get back to topic.

 

[djd]

Personally I have no problem with playing a female PC. It's no different from a male author writing from the perspective of a female character or visa versa. Maybe you have to be secure with your own sexuality first?

 

[zozotroll]

And maybe different things bug differnt people. Perhaps that should be considered before taking cheap shots.

 

[Supplement Four]

You're still making bravados hidden behind your computer when you should have taken a low profile, knowing that you did wrong.

Just for clarification, I didn't do anything wrong at all. I didn't remove my post. I edited it because someone I like and respect asked me to. That's it.

I don't need to "take a low profile". I stand behind what I said.

Be sure I'll be ready to stand this kind of conversation face to face with anyone.

BTW, I'm going to France and Italy next month. You're in France, yes? If I was a little less civilized, I'd look you up, come by your shop, and just see what you would say to me, face to face.

Too bad it's not worth the vacation time to do that. It might have been interesting. If I do find it convenient to come by, I suspect you'll be a little more polite in person.

 

[djd]

And maybe different things bug differnt people. Perhaps that should be considered before taking cheap shots.

Not sure how that's a cheap shot? It was a question. I'm just currious as to why certain people would find it a problem and other's not. As I said- most authors manage to do it as a matter of routine.

 

[zozotroll]

You dont consider implying a person is not secure in their sexuality a shot? Try it face to face some time with other than a good friend and note the reaction.

 

[djd]

No I don't consider it a 'shot' and I'd happily say it to someones face. It was actually a query - thinking out loud if you like - as to why some people are comfortable with the idea and others are not? In the same way I would not consider it an insult if someone were to call me 'gay' - a) there are far worse things to be called and b) I'm comfortable and confident enough to know the truth of the matter. I certainly don't subscribe to the view that all authors who write characters of the other sex and all role players who enjoy that challenge are in some way weird. As someone who usually referees games rather than plays I have to try and portray female NPC's all the time. Does that make referees odd?

If you do consider it a 'shot' then perhaps you should consider the stuff that's featured on this thread! I'm not going to pretend that I consider the things posted here reasonable or the sign of a well adjusted person.