What if a stargate was discovered on the sea floor?

Tom Kalbfus

Mongoose
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The map shows the extent of the coastline during the last ice age. What if some aliens placed a stargate on land that is now underwater?
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Assume the stargate is tetrahedral in structure and each face of the tetrahedron is a stargate leading to another world. The tetrahedron sits on the ocean floor on the continental shelf in shallow water off the coast of Long Island. What happens if the gate is discovered by a ship laying out telephone cable?
One of the Worlds is that of a Terraformed Mars.
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Each face of the tetrahedral stargate is 50 feet on a side, the corresponding Martian stargate is under the Northern Ocean on Mars. This doesn't appear to be the Mars one observes through telescopes. The moons of Mars appear in the sky, the planets appear in different positions in their orbits than seen from Earth. Radio contact was attempted to be made with Earth from the Mars side of the stargate but with no luck. There are ruins of ancient cities on the planet that appear t have been built by humans. Scientists stress that if the stargate is a kind of wormhole, the theoretically it could connect two points in time, this Mars could be a future Mars. The atmosphere is breathable, the Martian Ocean contains the same life forms as the North Atlantic, many fish species apparently have swum through the stargate over time and now populate both ends. There are native humans on Mars, either descending from the time of the ancient cities of having traveled through the stargate during the last ice age. The gravity is lower here, some of the life forms are larger than their normal types. The stargate itself is in US territorial waters.

So what do you think happens here? What role would the PCs have in this campaign, depending on when this stargate was discovered? I'm leaving it unspecific, it could have been discovered in the 18th century, 19th, 20th or 21st centuries, with different implications.
 
Unless one of the links were to a system out of the Earth/Sol system, then I think this would be an interesting new article and that would be it. Things that are located only in the Earth/Sol system would have little to no impact on the games we play of Traveller as they tend to be either in the Spinward Marches or the Solomani Rim depending on the game being played. Though I can see the excitement for something like this if you were playing 2300 for example, or some other Earth centered spin off of Traveller. I think this almost calls for it's own complete setting to be really useable. :D
 
-Daniel- said:
Unless one of the links were to a system out of the Earth/Sol system, then I think this would be an interesting new article and that would be it. Things that are located only in the Earth/Sol system would have little to no impact on the games we play of Traveller as they tend to be either in the Spinward Marches or the Solomani Rim depending on the game being played. Though I can see the excitement for something like this if you were playing 2300 for example, or some other Earth centered spin off of Traveller. I think this almost calls for it's own complete setting to be really useable. :D
It links to either a Mars of the future or perhaps to a Mars of a parallel universe or maybe both, what is in that Sol System where the Terraformed Mars exists has links to the rest of the Universe. A civilization terraformed Mars, and that civilization has fallen, maybe it was a war or some other disaster, but Mars stayed terraformed, so it occurred not too long ago. If humans from our Earth could step through that gate and get to that Mars, they could build spaceships that could more easily get to space from Mars than from Earth, due to the lower gravity, and then they could explore the rest of the Solar System for artifacts that could get them to other star systems. Does that help?

There is a whole planet to explore, an planet with unknown history, though somewhat familiar to us, it appears to be a Mars of the future, modified by humans, someone built the stargate as well, maybe there are other stargates in this system. The campaign becomes sort of a treasure hunt, where more stargates are found leading to more planets orbiting other stars. Lets assume we colonize this Mars through that gate using today's technology. A small submarine can get us through that gate into Mars' Northern Ocean, we can then set up settlements along the shore of the Southern Continent, we can explore inland, maybe search the ruins of the cities for technological artifacts. What do you think? The fish in the Northern Ocean are the same as found off of Long Island, this includes such things as Tuna, Cod, and Great White Sharks! The light from the Sun is half as bright, but the lower gravity allows for a thicker atmosphere and enhanced greenhouse effects, so the two cancel out.
 
I think it might make a great alternative setting using the Traveller rules, I just don't see it being tied into the normal Traveller setting is all. But a campaign set in the Sol system and this gate(s) being found. I say develop it and have fun playing it out. :D
 
Please define the properties of the Stargate. 2-way travel, 1-way travel, connection required?
Obviously, if it's open all the time, the Martian end will be in deeper water (due to gravity/pressure differences) but you'd still have a 'cold spot' in the shallow water which would have been noticed where you have put it - needs to be more remote, and near a polar latitude (to near equalise the Martian water temperature) if possible.
Due to submarine activity during WW2 and the cold war, most areas approaching the US port's have been mapped, re-mapped and are monitored closely, it's simply not feasible that something that big wouldn't have been noticed before. You need to get a bit creative with your location - may I suggest somewhere that had a glacier covering it until recently, until it retreated due to a warmer climate; might even be in a lake or big river ("Scientists baffled by saltwater inland lake"), or somewhere coastal, but more remote - Alaska perhaps ("Oil survey finds mysterious object").
 
Rick said:
Please define the properties of the Stargate. 2-way travel, 1-way travel, connection required?
Obviously, if it's open all the time, the Martian end will be in deeper water (due to gravity/pressure differences) but you'd still have a 'cold spot' in the shallow water which would have been noticed where you have put it - needs to be more remote, and near a polar latitude (to near equalise the Martian water temperature) if possible.
Due to submarine activity during WW2 and the cold war, most areas approaching the US port's have been mapped, re-mapped and are monitored closely, it's simply not feasible that something that big wouldn't have been noticed before. You need to get a bit creative with your location - may I suggest somewhere that had a glacier covering it until recently, until it retreated due to a warmer climate; might even be in a lake or big river ("Scientists baffled by saltwater inland lake"), or somewhere coastal, but more remote - Alaska perhaps ("Oil survey finds mysterious object").
I was thinking of having it discovered in the 19th century when they were laying out telephone cable across the Atlantic, but I wanted to leave that option open. If it was discovered earlier than today, it would have an effect on history. Lets say it was discovered in 1866 for example, you might then have a pattern of colonization that was similar to the settling of the West, you'd have frontier towns on the shores of the Northern Ocean, you'd have saloons, the railroad, telegraph wires, maybe outlaws hiding out in caves in the Valles Marineras, there would be gold and silver mines, maybe some native Martian/Humans. (They were descended from Paleo-Indians that settled North America when the ocean level was lower and the stargate was on dry land) the Martian cities predate the arrival of the Paleo-Indians, which means they are over 30,000 years old, Archeological evidence indicates they were inhabited by humans, and modern humans at that! This has a lot o 19th century scientists scratching their heads. When astronomers train their telescopes on the Martian skies, they can see the asteroids, they discover that Jupiter is closer, the Earth and its Moon is sometimes a morning star and sometimes an evening star, they can see Phobos and Deimos clearly enough, but the planet positions don't match where they think the planet positions should be as established from observing those same planets on Earth. Since they have no optical telescopes, they don't notice the radio silence from Earth. the 19th century scientists don't have a theory on how the stargate works, thus they refer to I simply as a "teleporter".

New towns are established on Mars, immigrants come from Europe hoping to make a new start on life. Events that occur in the American West are reflected also on the Martian Frontier. The Railroad goes through, gold is discovered and there is a gold rush. Various scientists pay a visit, and begin fossil hunting, they find he fossil record very scant, digging down deeper than a few feet produces no fossils at all, they are very puzzled on how life arrived on this planet. The wreckage of an ancient spacecraft is uncovered, the engine is a mystery, and its over 30,000 years old, but they find something that's written in English, it appears to be a manual of some sort. Nothing works of course, it is not clear how the spacecraft was operated, now dials or controls were found, instead there were a bunch of dark glassy surfaces, there was a stick, supposedly a control stick, but no instrument panels, just these dark rectangles of glass. Microscopes revealed tiny little wires about the size of bacteria, engineers are puzzled about the fabrication techniques in making something so small!

Later on the first Model T Fords are seen puttering across the highways of Mars, there is drilling for oil and gas, but no crude oil deposits are found! The search in on for deposits of coal again no luck! the Nation goes to war, the Germans are defeated, and its the 1920s, and then the Great Stock Market Crash of 1929, and a Depression ensues, more people seek their fortunes on the Martian Frontier after the Great Dustbowl in Oklahoma.

To answer your question, the stargates are two-way and are always open and have been so over the last 30,000 years.
 
So that's why they detected water on Mars surface!

Someone's been making regular calls since the Earth Gate was submerged and giving Mars a regular bath! :mrgreen:

Seriously though can you imagine the reaction if they thought this was actually happening and to test it they open the gate on Earth for a short period before shutting it down again whilst using a satellite system to watch Mars and see where that unexpected water spout occurs! :shock:
 
Eventually they figure out it is not their Mars that it connects to. this is a way of getting around the fact that the real Mars does not support life. This is a Mars of the distant future, where humans are the "Martians" They built the ancient cities, and there is a bit of a mystery about what happened to them. Over the course of the campaign some answers emerge.
 
I'll let all of you connect the dots however you like, there is no right or wrong answer, though some answers might make more sense than others. So I leave you with an unsolved mystery.
 
Setting it in the past does answer my point about the location quite well. 1866 might be a bit early though - if both gates are underwater, is the technology available to get through? I think the 1880's was the very earliest a reliable submarine could have been used, 1890's to 1910-ish would be better, as electric batteries are developed. Nice concept though.
 
Rick said:
Setting it in the past does answer my point about the location quite well. 1866 might be a bit early though - if both gates are underwater, is the technology available to get through? I think the 1880's was the very earliest a reliable submarine could have been used, 1890's to 1910-ish would be better, as electric batteries are developed. Nice concept though.
The Confederates had a submarine, the Hunley:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_(submarine)
No doubt some ex-Confederates could build another one. The point is, the stargate isn't that deep, a scuba diver could swim through it and then rise to the surface on Mars, the stargate might also be moved, though at 50' on a side, it is pretty heavy, alternatively a damn could be built around it and the water drained. Actually two sets of damns would be required, one Earth side the other on the Mars side. There are a lot of military engineers left over from the Civil War that could make this happen, among them is a person named Robert E. Lee. President Andrew Johnson could probably employ a number of ex-confederates in this endeavor, him being from the South himself after all. All in all, it would be a small effort for the government of the United States to make in return for the amount of territory that would be opened up.
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The settlement of Mars here would parallel the settlement of the West in the post Civil War era. A lot of Union and ex-Confederate soldiers would be involved, a certain cavalry commander George Armstrong Custer, might also gravitate towards this New Martian frontier, and there are lots of "Indians" to deal with out there too. You can't discount the effects of low gravity either, riding a horse in the low gravity of Mars would be a thing to get used to, both for the horse and the rider! There is plenty of fodder for horses to eat on the other side, and there are Martian horses too, and they are huge! Often standing 8 feet at the shoulder. The Martian "Indians" are pretty tall too with the males often standing 7 feet tall, with the females standing 6 feet tall on average, they not only hunt giant bison, but also elephants.
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Some cultures have taken to using them as war mounts! The United States Army will have its work cut out for them should some of the natives prove to be hostile to the settlers. Settling the Martian frontier would be a great way to bring the North and the South back together, and of course there would be lots of European immigrants that would be welcome to settle too, it is a big planet after all. (Well big compared to the American West in any event!) The United States Government is even giving out free land to all comers, both out West and on the planet Mars, there is a lot of land too, Mars is mostly land. Approximately two thirds of its surface is land, about the opposite relationship of land to water as is the Earth.
 
One major difference, on Mars the Homestead act continues into the 20th century, because there is a lot more land to parcel out. Model Ts putter out into the Martian roadways, one major problem is there is no gasoline, it has to be passed through the stargate, and it only accommodates so much traffic. Mars has no known reserves of fossil fuels, no crude oil, no coal deposits. Steam engines run on wood. automobiles can run on alchohol, they can run on biodiesel, alternate fuels are rather more expensive that gasoline, but gasoline is not available on Mars. On the other hand: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/12/04/curiosity-finds-hint-of-carbon-on-mars/#422c7d2a5305
There may be carbon on Mars, just not in the familiar form of coal and oil.

What do you think would happen during World War I, the 1920s, the Great Depression, and World War II? I'm assuming history remains largely on track on Earth, but there is a spill over effect for the settlers on Mars. The Settled portion of Mars is considered unorganized territories of the United States. The most populated region would be that canyon complex The Vallis Marinris, though it probable has a different name. You can see by the map that is has water in it, it is a great place for mining, some silver and gold deposits were found there, and shipping that through the stargate makes economic sense. I think on Mars, automobiles are expensive to run because of their fuel requirements. During World War II and after Jeeps are very popular there. Werner Von Braun moves to Mars to do some rocket research in the 1950s.
 
So bottom line, this is its own setting unique from Traveller in oh so many ways. I think this is fine, but it means the Traveller setting has no real bearing on this setting. Not really. :D
 
I would agree. This would work just as well with Legend as with Traveller. I am tempted to relocate this thread to the "Other Roleplaying Games" board.

In the morning.
 
-Daniel- said:
So bottom line, this is its own setting unique from Traveller in oh so many ways. I think this is fine, but it means the Traveller setting has no real bearing on this setting. Not really. :D
Are we talking the game or the setting? D&D is for instance a game, the Forgotten Realms is a setting. Did I claim it was the OTU setting? However given that there is a 30,000 year time difference between the 1866 end of the stargate on Earth and the Mars end with the terraformed Mars, this puts it way past the Classic Traveler Era of the OTU, there is nothing that says it couldn't be that setting. As far as I know, in the OTU, Mars is not terraformed, but with 30,000 extra years of time, who knows? All it would take would be one extra stargate, and you can hook in the OTU, if the Imperium got involved through this, you might have conflicts with the American government's settlement with this Mars. The Third Imperium might argue that this world represents their future as well, so therefore this Mars and Solar System equally belongs to them!

What do you think?
 
Tom Kalbfus said:
What do you think?
For me, Stargates bring up too many images of Goa'uld System Lords. But if someone can get over the whole Stargate series then I think given enough info before the players start play, it could be a fun time around the old RPG table. :D

Now to your other question, yes I understand the rules vs setting issue. But I think your setting would be better served by a different set of rules. To be honest, if I were setting this in the 1800's or very early 1900s and adding in sci-fi elements I might be tempted to use Space 1899. Covers the type of characters and setting elements you have described. If you go for a later date then Space 1899 might not be a good choice. :D
 
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