What I believe _is_ really broken

As to how common runes are in Glorantha , I feel they are very common. The Rules say Runes are blood of the Gods and the Gods of Glorantha do a lot of bleeding. Not only did the Gods do a lot of bleeding during the Gods war , they still do a lot of bleeding.I remember reading that during the battle of Moonbroth that Oakfed alone died 3 times and that would have left alot of fire runes around to be picked up after the fight. Granted Moonbroth was a big battle but But how many times over the years has Oakfed, or Thunderbird or Rainbow Girl or Frogwoman been summoned to the Plains of Prax to fight and die?
Second you have Heroquesting.Going on a Heroquest where you sometimes have to fight the Gods is a good way to pick up a sack of runes. And the way the Godlearners treat the Heroplane, I would not be surprised that they have a Rune strip mining business set up.
 
Well, in fact there was an interesting contribution on the WorldofGlorantha list some months ago that suggested that the physical runes were in fact a God Learner construct, a sort of way they had found to freeze a God's power in an easy-to-carry magic reserve. Very God Learner-ish.

I think that cults, worshiping and heroquesting should in fact create runes in Gloarantha. The whole thing of "runes are rare" in the core book applies to gateway settings, but not Glorantha. While the mechanics for the casting might remain the same, integration included (if we solve the death issue), there should be many more situations described where a leftover of some ritual or being should "crystallize" into a rune. For instance, destroying a Vampire could create an Undeath Rune.
 
Are there any spells that require three runes or more?

Because you need a hand for each Rune in order to cast...no. However, it did make me think of some really cool Rune combinations for Timinit Runecasters if I can get Matt to let me do a Timinit Sourcebook.

Seriously...Bug Magic...it would rule... :)

-Bry
 
Gee! Considering how many Gloranthaphiles have an entomologist background as their college career (do not laugh, we had a poll on the Glorantha forum) and adding Trifletraxor, of course, this book would be a big hit!

Bug Power! Gorakiki rules!
 
RosenMcStern said:
1. To make runes 'die' with the person who integrated it, so it cannot be used by another.

This is only possible if runes are somehow "generated" by worshiping at the appropriate temple, otherwise the original amount of runes left over by the Gods war would have been exausted generations ago. But this is very Gloranthan, and a solution I like.

While coming up with this I used the Ideas in the Runic Powers PDF, specifically regarding that new runes may appear where a warrior has fallen, etc as a way of replenishing them. I know that it has been said they are optional rules, but I like them. Runic Powers also presents the blood of the gods as the theistic story of the origin of runes, and provides other views from other cultures - which all makes sense in a Gloranthan way. After all, rune magic is equally usable by all types of magic users, theistic, sorcererous, mystic, or shamanistic.

RosenMcStern said:
2. Make rune integration not tie a specific rune individually to a user.

Fine, too, except that it is not attuned with the spirit of having the Rune as a physical object, which is one of the big changes introduced by MRQ. In RQ3 we had focuses for battle magic, but few GMs enforced their use during play. Having runes as objects is a worthy addition to the game, my only [big] complaint is the "to the death" binding described in the core rules, that does not fit Glorantha very well, even in the Second Age.

Well you still need a physical rune, but you are not tied to a specific one. In some ways it makes more sense to me - if a rune is a physical representation of one of the metaphysical 'building blocks' of the world, why is one Man rune so different from another? If there are tens or hundreds of thousands of Man runes in the world are they all that different from each other? Perhaps some hybrid of my two suggestions is workable, so that initially you need the rune you integrated, but as your skill goes up you can use any rune, quick suggestion follows:
Runecasting 40% Gains Runic Power
Runecasting 60% Can use any rune, not just integrated one.
Runecasting 80% Physical Rune no longer needed at all
Runecasting 150% Every time character has a bowel movement there is a POW% chance of passing a newly created rune of that type (okay, maybe not).

RosenMcStern said:
If a person loses their integrated man rune (someone takes it and tosses it into the ocean) they cannot ever cast spells that require that rune again. You can't unintegrate it (at least easily) so you can't integrate a second one and can't cast without it.

IIRC there was a post months ago that clarified that you can integrate a second rune of the same kind.

If you are referring to Bryan's post I think he pointed out that Runic Powers were optional, but I am not aware of any official rule on integrating more than one rule. The only things published on the matter by Mongoose I am aware of are Runic Powers and RQ Monsters, which states that you become a Vampire by integrating 9 Death Runes - which of course implies you can integrate more than one. However there is no rule I have found saying you CAN either, and nothing is written on the mechanics (Do you sacrifice additional POW, do you stack the Bonuses?).

RosenMcStern said:
Runecasting takes Improvement rolls. At a suggested 3 per adventure you can only ever get good at a few runes. You need to think about what spells you want to master and work towards those runes.

Rurik, remember that most "big" spells take two/three runes to cast, although the Runecasting skill is the same. A caster that specialized in three Runecasting skills may need as many as ten integrated runes to have a decent array of magic spells.

A few spells take two - I'm not aware of any that take three (befuddle takes Disorder and Man OR Beast). And well befuddle is a very potent spell, the requirement for more than one rune does not seem tied to power level - Hand of Death and Skybolt are both 1 rune spells.

RosenMcStern said:
3. If you have too many runes people will kill you just to take them. :twisted:

Ah, so you admit that there _is_ a problem :p
[/quote]

It's a RPG - killing people and taking their stuff is not a problem - it is a way of life. :)

RosenMcStern said:
Rune Magic in Glorantha: I use the system as is but use Folk magic liberally. Everyone can use a folk magic bladesharp or heal or protection up to 2 points. All cults teach folk magic versions of their spells (up to 2 points). If you want a better version you need to integrate the rune. Magic is common, but there is still benefit to mastering a few runes.

Fine, and in line with what happens in HeroQuest. Folk Magic = Common Magic, and Cult Runes = Cult Affinities. I still want to see more spells tied to the basic runes of PC cults like Air or Earth. But then there should be a more widespread description of the most common folk magic spells, and which cults do teach them. Also note that folk magic, at least as described in the PG, is far less effective than Rune Magic. A combat spell, frex, only givest you +5% to hit, not +1 damage like Bladesharp. And healing is supposed to speed up natural healing a lot, not to close the wound at once.
[/quote]

True, but the rules are loosely defined and presented as guidelines for folk magic, so I use it for things like cult spells and some other problem spots regarding cults and rune spells (peaceful cut for example).
 
Mongoose Steele said:
IIRC there was a post months ago that clarified that you can integrate a second rune of the same kind.

You are correct. In fact, when Spellbook comes out I can think of about 30 different reasons why you not only can but should integrate multiple runes of the same type.

8)

-Bry

Well that settles that. Are there specific rules for integrating multiple runes (Runic Powers had them, but it was very difficult, -100% I believe).

The questions that come to mind are:
Do subsequent runes cost additional POW?
Do Runic Abilities stack (though not all of them are 'stackable').
Is there a penalty?
 
Do subsequent runes cost additional POW?

Yes, but remember that these expended POW can be re-purchased through Advancement Rolls. Nowhere does it say that the POW loss comes off the character's maximum, just that it is a permanent loss.

Do Runic Abilities stack (though not all of them are 'stackable').

No. See page 64 of RQ: "The runic powers of several runes of the same type cannot be combined though a character may enjoy the runic powers of several different runes."

Is there a penalty?

Nope. In fact, I highly suggest grabbing a few Chaos runes for your baddies and watch the Pandemonium unfold.

Hope that is helpful! :)

Bry
 
Rurik said:
Runecasting 150% Every time character has a bowel movement there is a POW% chance of passing a newly created rune of that type (okay, maybe not).

LOL! A crap idea (not necessarily in a negative sense).

- Q
 
Mongoose Steele said:
No. See page 64 of RQ: "The runic powers of several runes of the same type cannot be combined though a character may enjoy the runic powers of several different runes."

Well that certainly implies you can integrate more than one in the core rules. That bit is not in the SRD (which I often work from on my computer as I don't own the electronic copy of the Core book).
 
Mongoose Steele said:
Do subsequent runes cost additional POW?

Yes, but remember that these expended POW can be re-purchased through Advancement Rolls. Nowhere does it say that the POW loss comes off the character's maximum, just that it is a permanent loss.

True, but it takes three Improvement roles per attempt, and you only get a 50% chance of it working if your POW is 10, less if it is higher. It can be raised, but Raising POW is neither cheap or easy.

The additional POW for no additional powers is a penalty of sorts, but it sounds there are advantages coming in the spellbook. Looking forward to it.
 
If there are tens or hundreds of thousands of Man runes in the world are they all that different from each other?

There's some stuff on runes in the GM's Guide. The Man rune is a Form rune, so it gives shape to a form, not necessarily just homo sapiens. Thus, you could quite conceivably have a Man rune partricular to trolls, broo, etc. Anything bipedal with arms, hands, a head, brain... Some Form runes can be mixed to give different combinations: Man and Beast to create centaurs, for example, or broo, again.

Anyhow, the point is that multiple types of the same rune could, conceivably, exist.

Have I opened another can of worms (goverened by the Beast rune, naturally)?
 
Mongoose Steele said:
Are there any spells that require three runes or more?

Because you need a hand for each Rune in order to cast...no. However, it did make me think of some really cool Rune combinations for Timinit Runecasters if I can get Matt to let me do a Timinit Sourcebook.

Seriously...Bug Magic...it would rule... :)

-Bry

YES! MORE BUG POWER!!!


(On a sideline, the suggestion of integrated Runes disappearing upon death fits very well with the fact that there are no such runes in the 3rd Age.)

SGL.
 
It would seem to me that those with strong ties to a diety should be able to use some form of DI to make more runes, at least the ones associated with the cult. THen those could be given to initiates.

I would think that if, say, Orthalth is associated with the air rune, his priest could use their link with Ortlanth to create air runes for the worshippers.

Maybe something like spend a POW to make a rune?
 
Loz said:
Have I opened another can of worms (goverened by the Beast rune, naturally)?

And Earth Rune too. :wink:

I had a lengthy pondering post once on what the 'new' physical runes mean and how to explain them in the tradition Gloranthan sense once. The concept whereas Aldryami are from Man and Plant runes and Trolls from Man and Darkness runes have always been part of Glorantha, but these new physical rune-amjiggy things are a new concept to the world.

Using the rules as written in MRQ, it can only be assumed each individual rune is indeed unique, otherwise integrating one would be the same as integrating with all runes of a type. Each one is as individual as any person, and not every living person is a match for every rune. So integrating a rune is akin to finding a sort of soulmate in a sense - you become linked to that particular rune, and no one else can (at least while you live).

Applying that thinking to a rules 'fix' (though I'm in the 'not broken' camp), the rune dying when it's integrated 'soulmate' dies makes a lot of sense. Part of the rune becomes part of its' integrator, and is lost when they die.

Of course, using that system does not really jive with the idea of integrating a rune as mastery or even learning of the rune as a representation of one of the forces that shape the worlds - the 'building blocks' or 'alphabet' that all of reality is made from. I mean, have you really learned and melded with the secrets of form or man as they relate to the world, or just attuned yourself to a little rock with a stick figure dude on it. If unlocking the secrets of rune is part of become in tune with the forces how come you are tied to one physical rune? It was this train of thought that led to my other direction with houserules, that once you have unlocked the secret of the fire rune, you are in tune with the forces of the world that make fire possible, and any fire rune will allow you to channel the forces of fire to shape the world around you in your own small way (i.e. cast fireblade).

Unlike many of the people who have been gaming in Glorantha for a long time now I kinda like the little rocks with stick figures on them. But also being a 'Gloranthaphile' (though only as a neurotic, not a psychotic) I guess I have come to expect that rules have a plausible explanation behind them (you know, in a fantasy cube world floating on an eternal sea kind of way).

Which all touches on what I think most Gloranthaphiles hate about runes. Change is always met with resistance, but can be weathered. RQ3 was change. HeroQuest was change in a big way. But there were reasons for the change that ultimately made sense from a Gloranthan standpoint (disclaimer: except Elmal). So far Runes really haven't been explained in a way that justifies the changes.

I look forward to more on them in the GM book.

And looking back at the length of this post I would have to say yes, yes indeed you did open a can of worms.
 
Trifletraxor said:
Rurik said:
Loz said:
Have I opened another can of worms (goverened by the Beast rune, naturally)?

And Earth Rune too. :wink:

AND the Darkness rune. Swems is a darkness god.

Doh! too true.

Wow, worms are much more complex organisms than humans on Glorantha. Who'd a thunk it?

When a thread on broken rules has moved on to worms does that contitute a threadjack?
 
This talk of how a man rune for a troll or an elf has gotten me thinking, something I try to avoid most of the time. In the old Elder secret book where it gave tunes for magic crystals there was a slight chance a crystal could have 2 powers.
So how about having certain rare objects that would have 2 or maybe even more runes .For example a lump of lead from a Troll God that has both the man and darkness rune. Would make sense since many Gods have more then one rune. But I would agree such object should be rare.
 
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