Warp Ships
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
For my setting I use hyperdrives with an average hyperspace speed of
2 parsec per day, and they do indeed influence the setting quite a lot.
First, there are far less colonies on uninhabitable planets than in a Third
Imperium setting. It is easier and less expensive to just pass them by
and settle only the more or less earthlike planets, even if they are some-
what more distant.
Second, the entire trade system had to be modified, because there is no
longer the standard voyage duration of 1 week. The costs for the trans-
port of freight and passengers had to be recalculated for the shorter vo-
yages as well as for the fact that ships now can make more voyages and
therefore earn more income per month.
Third, the strategic doctrines of the setting have changed completely. With
a drive that has basically no range limit, attacking ships can reach every
system without having to pass through other systems. There is no border
to defend and fortify, the defence has to concentrate on the core systems
themselves.
These are just the most important changes, there are also lots of minor
and not immediately obvious ones, but they depend a lot on the specific
setting.
2 parsec per day, and they do indeed influence the setting quite a lot.
First, there are far less colonies on uninhabitable planets than in a Third
Imperium setting. It is easier and less expensive to just pass them by
and settle only the more or less earthlike planets, even if they are some-
what more distant.
Second, the entire trade system had to be modified, because there is no
longer the standard voyage duration of 1 week. The costs for the trans-
port of freight and passengers had to be recalculated for the shorter vo-
yages as well as for the fact that ships now can make more voyages and
therefore earn more income per month.
Third, the strategic doctrines of the setting have changed completely. With
a drive that has basically no range limit, attacking ships can reach every
system without having to pass through other systems. There is no border
to defend and fortify, the defence has to concentrate on the core systems
themselves.
These are just the most important changes, there are also lots of minor
and not immediately obvious ones, but they depend a lot on the specific
setting.
As you appear to be ok with the rules as written on pg 109:
rust hit several good points, but I think his 'hyperspace' drives are a bit faster than MgT warp drives (2 1/3 faster than a Warp-6 rated drive).
The rules don't accommodate anything more than J-6, so if one were following them the limit is ~86% parsec per day.
From a settings standpoint (trade and colonization), this shouldn't have too much effect, except to encourage higher rated drives and longer trade routes.
The ship doesn't need to do jump checks (though some mechanic might be nice to support RP if nothing else) and can also support normal space activities (EVAs), though, again a different mechanic might be desirable.
Warp drives sort-of also negate M-Drives (except maybe a 1 rating)... since one would just switch it on and off quickly to get within system.
IIRC, this is nothing like StarTrek's warp speed - Warp 1 would take a really long time to cross one parsec...
- Warp Drive: The ship warps space around it, allowing it to move faster-than-light while staying in our universe. A warp drive does not have a maximum range – instead, the ship’s drive rating indicates the number of parsecs crossed per week of travel. Warp travel consumes fuel at twice the normal rate for the ship’s power plant rather than needing a single massive expenditure in the manner of a Jump drive.
rust hit several good points, but I think his 'hyperspace' drives are a bit faster than MgT warp drives (2 1/3 faster than a Warp-6 rated drive).
The rules don't accommodate anything more than J-6, so if one were following them the limit is ~86% parsec per day.
From a settings standpoint (trade and colonization), this shouldn't have too much effect, except to encourage higher rated drives and longer trade routes.
The ship doesn't need to do jump checks (though some mechanic might be nice to support RP if nothing else) and can also support normal space activities (EVAs), though, again a different mechanic might be desirable.
Warp drives sort-of also negate M-Drives (except maybe a 1 rating)... since one would just switch it on and off quickly to get within system.
IIRC, this is nothing like StarTrek's warp speed - Warp 1 would take a really long time to cross one parsec...
Yep, this is why I decided to use the optional hyperdrive instead of the op-BP said:
tional warp drive. The warp drive proved too slow to really influence the
setting much, the result still looked much like a standard Third Imperium
setting.
With the hyperdrive (= maneuver drive rating in parsec per day, maxi-
mum 6 parsec / day) things really began to change and to look different-
ly, more like the Pacific islands than like a city subway map ...
Yes - faster and longer range drive options make for a more believably inhabited distribution (*even on a 2D projection) and could still maintain that 'age of sail' feel - actually even more accurately. The 3I wouldn't have to be any bigger, but have fewer 'inhabited' systems (by choice) - since it really has many times more than it needs anyway for RP (over 99% are probably undefined by anything but a 'main world' UWP).
Of course, not counting 'unofficial products'AndrewW said:
- and really only applicable to a given version though most official ones just rewrite the same prior material...The official 3I covers more than 11,000 systems - I doubt more than 110 are actually defined for any given version of Traveller in any way much more than UWP - not counting mention of a system's name merely in connection with another system's history. There are probably even fewer world maps in official sources for any given version.
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
I'm currently working on a warp ship book now. The slowest ship available is a warp 6 ship. I'm trying to decide if I want to cap it at warp 8 or 9 (going up 1 warp per TL makes life easy in that way, but Picard always went to warp 9 when things got hairy). I was going to go with the standard rules from the TMB, but after reading this thread, I am considering making it parsecs per day.
Would you guys rather see it as 1 warp = 1 parsec/day or = 1 parsec/week or something else?
Would you guys rather see it as 1 warp = 1 parsec/day or = 1 parsec/week or something else?
You'll probably also see more exploitation of in-system resources: ie other planets in the system and asteroid belts and Oort clouds, etc. These things are much quicker to reach with a warp drive than by using M drive all the way, or taking an in-system jump which is a week whatever you do.
I'd personally always have a maximum range for any kind of FTL drive - otherwise systems are indefensible as enemies can just warp in from any part of the galaxy. There would be no strategic choke points and no way to head off an enemy and prevent from from reaching core high pop worlds. Empires would be very hard to maintain.
I'd personally always have a maximum range for any kind of FTL drive - otherwise systems are indefensible as enemies can just warp in from any part of the galaxy. There would be no strategic choke points and no way to head off an enemy and prevent from from reaching core high pop worlds. Empires would be very hard to maintain.
There is a practical range limit for single ships and small fleets because ofGee4orce said:
the need to carry sufficient life support and provisions for the duration of
the voyage, only big fleets with lots of tenders can travel truly impressive
distances without a supply base in between.
Otherwise the situation is very similar to that of the Age of Sail, which Tra-
veller originally attempted to mirror.
During that period of history the governors of colonies, and often even ru-
lers of major coastal nations, had no way to know in advance when that
enemy fleet would appear on their coast, and also only very rarely a way
to find and fight it far from the coast.
This did not hinder seafaring nations to build and maintain their empires,
quite the contrary.
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
Gee4orce said:
For that, you mostly just need faster communication. If ship-to-ship/base comms traveled 1 hour/parsec instead of the speed of light (3-ish years per parsec), you could radio ahead of advancing ships. Then you'd need major military installations near (but not at) high pop worlds. If someone wanted to hit earth, mars base would be ready at a moment's notice and be able to warp in right behind the enemy ships with a gravity well projector (star wars rip) preventing the enemy from leaving. The enemy would be caught between the planet's defenses (heavy weapons platforms and ground based ultra heavy weaponry). Then the enemy would be caught between two sets of weapons, unable to leave and unable to accomplish their main objective due to energy shield generators protecting the planet. Attacking core worlds is a useless gesture, unless you're going to send in a special ops team (like Michael Stackpole's Rogue Squadron).
(All of the above are going to be in the warp ship book.)
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
DFW said:
Good point. Sold.
The "age of sail" thing mainly refers to communication lag, regardless of FTL method. If there's no FTL radio, then even taking hours to travel between systems will impose this.
Even with instantaneous transfer between systems, other limitations might impose lag, such as a requirement to be several light hours or days away from a star to start FTL (this might be due to gravity, solar flux levels or a requirement to be in a more rarified vacuum)
This also applies to within a system; a ship or station at Jupiter is between 49 to 53 light minutes away from one at Earth. If some event occurred at Jupiter it would take over an hour and a half for them to report it and receive instructions; this is potentially quite a common situation if gas giants are used for refuelling.
Even with instantaneous transfer between systems, other limitations might impose lag, such as a requirement to be several light hours or days away from a star to start FTL (this might be due to gravity, solar flux levels or a requirement to be in a more rarified vacuum)
This also applies to within a system; a ship or station at Jupiter is between 49 to 53 light minutes away from one at Earth. If some event occurred at Jupiter it would take over an hour and a half for them to report it and receive instructions; this is potentially quite a common situation if gas giants are used for refuelling.
In the age of sail, every journey didn't take more or less exactly a week ! Ships could be out at sea for months, with supplies running short, disease and mutiny amongst the crew, and dangerous storms threatening to sink the vessel in deep water.
Now - if there was a setting that re-created that I'd be very interested ! I suspect the Hyperspace drive rules are going to come closest, especially if you rule that there can be energy storms and the like, and if you made progress in Hyperspace relatively slow….
Now - if there was a setting that re-created that I'd be very interested ! I suspect the Hyperspace drive rules are going to come closest, especially if you rule that there can be energy storms and the like, and if you made progress in Hyperspace relatively slow….
