Victory-class Advanced Destroyer

[Atlantis]

Well that short burst of NL fire from the bow was just to destroy a target asteroid. They wouldn't use ALL the weapons, as that would be overkill. If you want a better idea of the Victory's weaponry, look at the Excalibur is taking on those 3 Drakh cruisers in "War Zone".

As for the fighters, the Nials do only ever seem to be effective fly forward. At Coriana VI Nials and Thunderbolts were seen to be working together very well, the Nials firing through the front arc and the Thunderbolts covering the rear. Every fighter has it's own style, it just depends on how it's used.

[edit by self: spelling ]

 

[tneva82]

Well that short burst of NL fire from the bow was just to destroy a target asteroid. They wouldn't use ALL the weapons, as that would be overkill.

For demonstartion purpose I would expext them to use as much firepower as possible. Point of it WAS to show how much firepower ship has afterall

Nials firing through the front arc and the Thunderbolts covering the read.

Or superior fighter to the front with inferior being used as reserve to mob up what's left after superior fighters do their job

 

[lastbesthope]

Well that short burst of NL fire from the bow was just to destroy a target asteroid. They wouldn't use ALL the weapons, as that would be overkill.

For demonstartion purpose I would expext them to use as much firepower as possible. Point of it WAS to show how much firepower ship has afterall

Speaking as someone with experience of real life demonstrations of weapon systems, you don't always go all out to show the full capabilities of the system, sometimes it's just a weapons proving trial. Since that firing was the first time the VCD had left the construction yard it was likely the first time it's weapons had fired, you always perform tests vefore cranking it up to 11.

LBH

 

[Locutus9956]

Well:

Firstly the engines on the Victory, ARE they Minbari? Are we sure about that? They look rather more like human giganto-thrusters than gravitic dive. Of course it may have both (gravitics for manuevering in general and big ass EA drive for just pure thrust).

Weaponry: Why use human pulse cannons rather than Molecular Pulsars? well for starters, I would guess pulse cannons are less power intensive, secondly they may be easier to maintain, and lastly and most importantly, theyre almost certainly CHEAPER.

As for the lightning cannon sure it has more dice than the big Vorlon one now BUT the big Vorlon one has another 10 inch range, isnt boresighted and can fire every turn and doesnt shut the whole ship down every time it fires!

Oh and dont know if anyones mentioned this yet but there is one REALLY big contribution EA tech gave to the ship: its massive interceptor grid.

 

[tneva82]

Well:

Firstly the engines on the Victory, ARE they Minbari? Are we sure about that? They look rather more like human giganto-thrusters than gravitic dive. Of course it may have both (gravitics for manuevering in general and big ass EA drive for just pure thrust).

IIRC in the episode with Dr. Franklin Gideon made specific reference to gravitic drives which gave them the dampers in landing bay that allowed them to retrieve Lochley.

BTW regarding Nials and fly only forward thingie: Vorlon transport doesn't seem to posses any thrusters except straight behind(ie in similar way to nial) yet can move straight up and even backwards as seen in B5 episodes. Maybe Nial drive system is similar to Vorlons(gravitic engine comes to mind)

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Well:

Firstly the engines on the Victory, ARE they Minbari? Are we sure about that? They look rather more like human giganto-thrusters than gravitic dive. Of course it may have both (gravitics for manuevering in general and big ass EA drive for just pure thrust).

Weaponry: Why use human pulse cannons rather than Molecular Pulsars? well for starters, I would guess pulse cannons are less power intensive, secondly they may be easier to maintain, and lastly and most importantly, theyre almost certainly CHEAPER.

As for the lightning cannon sure it has more dice than the big Vorlon one now BUT the big Vorlon one has another 10 inch range, isnt boresighted and can fire every turn and doesnt shut the whole ship down every time it fires!

Oh and dont know if anyones mentioned this yet but there is one REALLY big contribution EA tech gave to the ship: its massive interceptor grid.

Why should EA pulse cannons be cheaper than Mimbari tech? They've had a millennium longer than humanity to refine their manufacturing processes and economic systems. It's entirely possible that it costs the Minbari Federation less to construct a ship on the scale of the Sharlin than it does the EA to construct a ship like the Omega.

Anyone seen the economic comments in the Star Trek novel, Federation? Picard states it cost the Federation less economically to construct a Sovereign-class starship than it did to construct a ship of the older Galaxy-class, simply because of advances in manufacturing technology. There's nothing to say the Minbari are any different in Babylon 5. Plus, Mollari states that they have no interest in alien business, suggesting their economy is either too different for trade with alien governments on a large scale, or simply doesn't need anything aliens could provide, or need the sale of goods to alien governments.

I'm also pretty sure Garibaldi states the engines on the Victory are gravitic drives in A Call to Arms when he's talking to Sheridan about the ship's capabilities. EA drives are fusion based, if I remember right, and that's crude and nasty compared to gravitic drives. There's no reason to use that sort of tech in a ship that has access to gravitic drives. It'd be like building it with a rotating section to simulate gravity after being given artificial gravity technology by the Minbari...

 

[captainsmirk]

There's no reason to use that sort of tech in a ship that has access to gravitic drives. It'd be like building it with a rotating section to simulate gravity after being given artificial gravity technology by the Minbari...

The Warlock appears to have both...

I always imagined that the EA had't managed to produce a Gravitic Drive which could be used for main propulsion (possibly due to their less efficient power supplies) and so the Warlock only use it for maneuvering and relys on big ass fusion drives for main thrust.

Where as the Minbari have large enough powerplants to supply main power thrust through the Gravitic drive and so only use that.

But that's just my explanation, don't think theres anything official backing it up. That's also how I imagine the Centauri do it, explaining the presence of apparent thrusters and artificial gravity on their ships...


Nick

 

[Lord David the Denied]

As I understand the fluff, the Centauri do have limited gravitic drives, and their artificial gravity is an outgrowth of that technology. However, this info came from a site that claimed the Primus was fitted with a gravimetric shield system that also grew from their gravitic drive technology. Perhaps they simply have artificial gravity, developed in isolation, and haven't managed to crack gravitic drives.

The White Star uses gravitic drives, but the "engines" still glow like other races' thrusters do. The Victory is no different, I imagine. I've not heard anything about the Warlock using gravitic drives, though. We know it has artificial gravity, and as far as I know the Minbari gave this technology to earth as part of the ISA agreements. If they handed over gravitic drive technology as well, the EA fleet would certainly be using it in their new designs.

 

[cordas]

Maybe JMS just felt that most ships should glowy points at the back of the ships......

 

[Lord David the Denied]

That's also possible, but real-world explanations have no place here! Fie on you, I say! :wink:

 

[captainsmirk]

The way the WS was described would seem to indicate that the AG on Minbari ships is derived from the drive, not a seperate system in itself.

Dunno about the Centauri...

Seems likely that if you have invented literal artificial gravity then you can build a gravitic drive...


Nick

 

[Da Boss]

I think in the fact books it says that the Centauri got the tech from crashed ship but still don't understand all of it so they have elements of the tech they can reproduce in their fleets

 

[Alexb83]

IIRC, Delenn says that the Whitestars propulsion is based /partially/ on gravitic technology? It is a fusion of Vorlon and Minbari tech - and noone knows what the Vorlons used, whilst we know that the Minbari have used gravitic technology for some time.

They had living ships, so maybe they were propelled through the void by flatulence...

 

[lastbesthope]

The way the WS was described would seem to indicate that the AG on Minbari ships is derived from the drive, not a seperate system in itself.

I dunno, when Delenn and Lennier are drifting through hyperspace, the drive is dead but the AG is still working.

I'd say a related technology rather than the same bit of kit as the drive engine.

LBH

 

[Valen is my name]

Speaking as someone with experience of real life demonstrations of weapon systems,
LBH

what have you seen demonstrated?

and sorrry if this is a really stupid question but im tired and can't think...
what does IIRC stand for?

 

[emperorpenguin]

and sorrry if this is a really stupid question but im tired and can't think...
what does IIRC stand for?

If I Remember Correctly

 

[Methos5000]

Another reason that the Victory may not have included Molecular Pulsars instead of Pulse cannons is the Minbari may have decided not to include them in the design. There is no evidence, that I'm aware of, of the Minbari sharing that technology. The Minbari built the Whitestar ships so they would have used their best tech to make them as powerful as possible.
But my understanding is they only offers design plans and some materials for the Victory class, so there could be any number of reasons for not including Molecular pulsars in the design. Maybe they require special training to maintain or the technology was still fairly complicated even by Minbari standards. Going by the fleet list only the Torotha has Molecular Pulsars in the entire Minbari Fleet. If it is such a superior weapon why not put them on all there ships along side the fusion cannons. The answer, maybe they can't. They could very well be very expensive to build and maintain. The Whitestars get them because they are a special ship.
For all we know the Torotha had them installed and the Minbari decided the Fusion Cannons were superior in design and stuck with them. Then when the Shadow threat emerged they determined the Molecular Pulsar was a superior weapon against Shadow Ships and installed them on Whitestars. After the Shadows left the galaxy they determined the weapon was no longer required and left it out of the designs.
Another possiblity is the Minbari provided the Victory design with a similar weapons loadout like the Sharlin and Earth decided to throw in their own weapon systems as well.
I guess the point of this long-winded post is we just dont know why exactly it was build that way, it just was.

 

[polemarch]

Has anyone seen the special feature on the Crusade DVDs which works through the design process of the Victory. I think that this explains things quite nicely!

 

[cordas]

The Tigara also has Molecular Disruptors....

I would imagine the Mimbari looked at them and said why are we putting such short ranged guns on our ships.... we want range!!! So decided they where a bad idea and went for Fusion Cannons instead, this was re-enforced when they came up against ships using interceptors.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Has anyone seen the special feature on the Crusade DVDs which works through the design process of the Victory. I think that this explains things quite nicely!

I haven't, but I will when I get to Crusade. Still watching season 1 at the moment...