Victory-class Advanced Destroyer

[Lord David the Denied]

We all know the Victory is based on a fusion of Minbari and human technology, with a few Vorlon bits thrown in for a laugh; but what human tech is actually used? I know it has pulse cannons, we see gatling pulse cannons used to shoot down Drakh Raiders in Crusade, but what else is there, and did they bother with earth tech at all? Surely the Minbari technology is more advanced in every area; they have pulse weapons of their own, and Minbari armour, stealth, sensors and engines are all more advanced than the human equivalents.

So, I wonder, did the ISA leadership use earth tech just to pander to Sheridan? I can see an argument for creating a class of ship to represent the ISA using technology from the various member races, but the Narn and League worlds weren't involved. Maybe one of you uber-geeks can shed some light on this... :wink:

 

[Villiam]

Its been a LONG time since I watched any B5 stuff, but I didnt think it was necessarily an equal build of technology, but more like the Minbari designed it and Garibaldi's corporation built it.

 

[JayRaider]

Slightly off-topic but what always sticks in my mind about the Victory in B5 movie A Call To Arms was that Sheridan didn't seem particularly impressed with its weaponry. :shock:

 

[Banichi]

Slightly off-topic but what always sticks in my mind about the Victory in B5 movie A Call To Arms was that Sheridan didn't seem particularly impressed with its weaponry. :shock:

If memory serves, this was before he saw the lightening cannon fired. They had just finnished shooting what looked like neutron lasers. Of course they had just towed it out to the firing range in the first place, which is never a good start to a demo.

 

[Atlantis]

Well I'm guessing that the EA tech involves:

- The Heavy Pulse Cannon
- Heavy Interceptors (also used as anti-fighter weaponry)
- Thunderbolt Starfuries + EA standard launch/hangar facilities
- Transport tubes / maglev pods (though the Minbari and every other race probably have this too)

Of course a lot of it was the superior Minbari tech:

- Crystalline Armour
- Improved Neutron Lasers
- Fusion Cannons (I think I saw these lower-power weapons firing at Drakh raiders)
- The Lightning Cannon will have most likely been figured out by Minbari scientists (though I still think the idea of it being on par with Vorlon tech is insane - It would be the first step toward that level of tech, but no way as powerful as a real Vorlon Lightning Cannon.
- Artificial Gravity

As for tech from the other races...

Well the Centauri seceded from the Alliance after Drakh-controlled Centauri ships attacked ISA shipping (and were discovered by Lennier).

The Narn... were busy rebuilding their civilisation and reforming their ideals. To tell them about a ship of such awesome power would have probably brought back thoughts of destroying the Centauri again.

The Abbai are supposed to have good hydroponics knowledge etc. Their advances would more likely remain unseen, hidden in the life support and hydroponics systems.

The Brakiri don't have anything worth using really, not that we've seen, unless we need a ship that blows up after taking its first weapons hit. They would have probably charged the ISA for their services anyway.

The Cascor... well, we only saw the name once, on a nameboard at a League session... and a Llort was sat behind it. So we know nothing.

The Drazi have powerful weaponry, as seen in their attack on Centauri Prime, but even their Particle Cannon's aren't up to the level of Minbari Improved Neutron Lasers.

The Gaim... well their specialty will be ground combat, so I would have expected maybe a few ground troops... but this wasn't the case.

The Hyach. Well they're supposed to have amazing computer systems knowledge, so their advances would be unseen in the film/show too.

The Ipsha (yeah one of their ships was only seen once) seem to know a lot about putting a lot of guns on one hull, and look like they have an advanced energy-production method (as seen in B5Wars). Perhaps they were involved in the energy grid design.

The Llort... would YOU let them loose in an ISA shipyard & design facility? See what you have left after they've stolen everything.

The Pak'ma'ra... technologically not very advanced. That's not a failing, that's how they like to be, but for the purposes of the Victory project, not that useful.

The Vree. I would've like to have seen something cool like the fast-firing antimatter shredders used as an anti-fighter element on the Victory. In my opinion of how amazing that looked when a Xill fired it at Coriana VI, it looks even cooler than the Vorlon's Lightning Cannon. Plus the Vree have lots of advanced technology in medical, antimatter, and many other scientific branches.

And the Markab are dead. And the Raiders, Streib, and Drakh are non-ISA members. And the Dilgar are both non-ISA members AND dead.

Have I missed anyone?

[EDIT: My god i'm a loser... It's 9:30 on a Saturday morning and I've just written all of THIS?! lol]

[EDIT 2: Yes, I have missed someone. Now to add the Hyach.]

 

[captainsmirk]

The Cascor... well, we only saw the name once, on a nameboard at a League session... and a Llort was sat behind it.

G*ddamned Llort always stealing things! Look now they've even stolen the Cascor's Ambassador's seat!!!

And back on topic, to be honest the human "tech" seems to have mainly gone in the interior. The control systems are described as being like those on Earthforce ships, which is why the Charon's crew were able to fly them so easily. Other than that erm... interior decor?


Nick

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I know about the pulse cannons being EA tech, but again I'm forced to wonder, why bother using crude and nasty human pulse cannons, when they could use advanced Minbari molecular pulsars like the White Star carries?

Regardless of the ins and outs, it's an absurdly cool ship. Makes me want an ISA fleet... and that's an excuse to use a Sharlin and Nials and ditch the rest of the nasty Minbari fleet...

I hate this game. Makes me want to spend money...

 

[Nerroth]

You missed the Ghosts of Omelos - but they wouldn't be fans of the ISA either...


...Plus there's the Orieni, and it's still to be explored as to what kind of ISA-era role they will play.


Gary

 

[tneva82]

If memory serves, this was before he saw the lightening cannon fired. They had just finnished shooting what looked like neutron lasers. Of course they had just towed it out to the firing range in the first place, which is never a good start to a demo.

Of course there's slight oddity between his comment and ACTA stats...Those neutron lasers didn't pack all that much more punch than average white star...In ACTA difference is QUITE substantial...

So either victory is overgunned in neutron lasers or white star is under gunned.

If going from canon that is

 

[cordas]

Earth supplied the coffee machines and air conditioning, oh and all the switches.

 

[Atlantis]

Oh, not forgetting the uniform supplies, we know Earth designers did them.

 

[katadder]

If memory serves, this was before he saw the lightening cannon fired. They had just finnished shooting what looked like neutron lasers. Of course they had just towed it out to the firing range in the first place, which is never a good start to a demo.

Of course there's slight oddity between his comment and ACTA stats...Those neutron lasers didn't pack all that much more punch than average white star...In ACTA difference is QUITE substantial...

So either victory is overgunned in neutron lasers or white star is under gunned.

If going from canon that is

yes but each nuetron laser considering theres more than 1 mounted in the front

 

[Banichi]

I've had time to watch the movie again since yesterday, and it does look more like a battery of neutron lasers on the front of the victory, not just one like on a whitestar.

 

[cordas]

Oh, not forgetting the uniform supplies, we know Earth designers did them.

I was trying to forget about those..... cheers :evil:

 

[LaranosTZ]

See, this is one thing that people seem to ignore, Earth wasn't -that- far behind in tech, especially at the beginning of the Crusade area. It's always been alluded in JMS's work that human's advantage has been our adaptibility and our relatively rapid evolution as a race. Read, we very easily see what others do, and can figure it out/copy it very quickly. For example, the pulse weapons that are in the Victory class vessel achieve a much higher rate of fire as well as more 'punch' then the pulse weapons of any other race. Why are they integrated into a ship with so much other tech can also be included? Especially when weapons such as neutron lasers and beams from the Minbari is simple, tactical variety, certain types of weapons work better under different situations, both in how they strike the target as well as different ways of overcoming a target's defense. In addition, it seems as though a pulse weapon is much smaller and easier to mount then even the mini-beam fusion beams of the Minbari.

The starfuries included in the ship are an even easier choice, not only are there Earth fighter pilots that need to fly them, but most races consider the starfury and thunderbolt class fighters the most advanced 'design' of fighter in the B5 storyline. Other race's fighters may have higher tech, but if you look at their actual flight design, they aren't nearly as effective. For example, again using the Minbari, if it weren't for earth's inability to lock onto their ships the nial would be very little match for a thunderbolt. In this case for the simple reason that given their design, a nial -must- fly in a single direction, so they are more predictable as a target. Earth fighters have full three dimensional maneuverability; this is a pretty massive advantage as they can pivot on a single point and change movement vectors much less predictably and more fluidly then any other race's fighters. I would -hate- to have to learn that particular flying style though; could you imagine flying in a single direction, and having your flight leader order a pivot a full 180 degrees so you are flying backwards, then have him order a spinoff where you fire your lateral jets and while still flying backwards, go spinning off on a tangent vector? (If you are having problems imagining this maneuver, think of a starfury flying backwards, then firing just one of it's wing thrusters straight down, causing it to spin off it's current direction of travel.)

 

[captainsmirk]

Actually I imagine that the Nial's gravitic drive allows it to do most things that the Starfury can do...

Plus its weapons are much more impressive (although that doesn't of course translate as more effective), the Thunderbolt does have missiles though...


Nick

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Everybody's fighters perform in that way, Laranos, simply because they're all subject to same laws of physics as everyone else. We only ever see the other fighters flying like conventional aircraft for reasons known only to the production crew. Have a look at that B5 flight sim, I've Found Her; all the fighters move according to real Newtonian physics.

In the case of the Nial, though, its gravitic drive allows it to basically flout the laws of physics, the same as Vree ships dancing about wherever they please. The Starfury design works with crude thrusters and nasty earth tech. More advanced races don't need to do the same things.

 

[Shadow Queen]

Oh, not forgetting the uniform supplies, we know Earth designers did them.

I was trying to forget about those..... cheers :evil:

"Bell Hops" to quote Captain Giddeon

 

[tneva82]

yes but each nuetron laser considering theres more than 1 mounted in the front

But the shooting demonstration DID use all of them so clearly Sheridan didn't rank that battery as much more effective than average white star.

 

[Valen is my name]

he thought they werent much better than a white stars firepower because he expected a lot more, but if he watches it again he'd probably say it was actually quite good, it just wasnt as good as he hought it would be.