Traveller tech stuck in the 70's?

[BP]

...
I would add to this that MGT's attempt at Augments doesn't progress as fast as *I* think it should, and that a number of its electronics don't advance that quickly, or are introduced at a too-high TL.

But it's good that they included them; their versions provide a place to start from.

TL is really kinda setting dependent - i.e. based on the 3I. If things progressed the way they should, the 3I setting would be broken (i.e. augments would be ubiquitous) and compatability with CT.

For custom settings, it would be best to modify TL for various categories or come up with a new TL type system.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

To give an example: The Central Supply Catalogue describes a TL 10 Powered Plate Armour as made of metallic plates. True, this is possible - but it is far more likely that it would be made of something like synthetic chitin, which is far lighter than any metal.

Uh, right, the obvious question would be - How do you know? Were talking thousands of years into the future. Can you say with certainty that you will be right? Arent you just looking at it from a perspective of someone in 2010?

You have to be careful not to assume that everything you know is right. We dont know with any kind of certainty.

Meanwhile we can all play Traveller! 8)

 

[AndrewW]

You have to be careful not to assume that everything you know is right. We dont know with any kind of certainty.

Meanwhile we can all play Traveller! 8)

And thousands of years into the future they can still be playing Traveller, can advance the timeline and TL.

 

[BP]

...And thousands of years into the future they can still be playing Traveller, can advance the timeline and TL.

No, no, no! The TL must stay 1970's!

 

[rust]

Uh, right, the obvious question would be - How do you know?

Since none of us can know it, we can only have opinions based upon what
we consider likely, and it is extremely likely that we consider different fu-
ture developments as likely, so in all likelihood our opinions will differ. :lol:

 

[phavoc]

...And thousands of years into the future they can still be playing Traveller, can advance the timeline and TL.

No, no, no! The TL must stay 1970's!

That 70's Traveller? :lol:

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Since none of us can know it, we can only have opinions based upon what we consider likely

Then Marc Millers extrapolation is as good as any. 8)

 

[aspqrz]

And thousands of years into the future they can still be playing Traveller, can advance the timeline and TL.

Maybe they'll be playing Space Opera instead :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Phil

 

[Ishmael]

Sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic ( or something like that )

so, if our present day tech looks like magic to people who are only tech 1, then tech 15 technology will look like magic to us,
therefore
a far future game of Traveller will look like "Harry Potter" to us?

 

[BP]

Sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic ( or something like that )...

Extreme Traveller tech = D&D :shock: :lol:

IIRC the phrase by Arthur C. Clarke goes - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Of course, for most people on earth today - this is true of computers, medicines and other tech

 

[phavoc]

Sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic ( or something like that )

so, if our present day tech looks like magic to people who are only tech 1, then tech 15 technology will look like magic to us,
therefore
a far future game of Traveller will look like "Harry Potter" to us?

Okay, well, we aren't talking like D&D. Today we know about all kinds of things that we just can't do (yet). We also have seen/read lots of sci-fi that postulates the "impossible".

What we are talking about here is the extrapolation of tech in Traveller TO tech 15. There have been many, many, many scientific advances since then that have opened up a whole host of new things.

For example, Star Wars, while a great movie, is just a western in space. Starships having to be in visual range to attack with lasers? Blasters are no more than the revolvers of the 1800s, except instead of bullets they use energy. Fighters have to be right on your ass in order to almost hit you with a light-speed weapon before you evade them. In some ways that's what Traveller is.

Don't get me wrong, I like the game. But I think it needs a bit of an overhaul. And as I said before, I thought MG missed the boat when they didn't give it one before they republished it.

As an interesting Star Wars trivia note, Lucas decided that starfighter combat in Star Wars was going to be based on WWII fighter dogfights, so that's why it decidedly low-tech in appearance.

 

[rust]

IIRC the phrase by Arthur C. Clarke goes - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Ah, well ... not the most covincing of Clarke's phrases.

It only makes sense if people believe that magic does exist and does
work, otherwise they know perfectly well that it is technology, they
just do not know how it works.

 

[rust]

What we are talking about here is the extrapolation of tech in Traveller TO tech 15. There have been many, many, many scientific advances since then that have opened up a whole host of new things.

I was just thinking of the Perry Rhodan roleplaying game.

It is based upon Germany's oldest and most successful science fiction se-
ries. When it started in 1961, its technology was already beyond Travel-
ler's TL 16, and today's Perry Rhodan technology would make the Anci-
ents look like low tech primitives: The series and the roleplaying game
have intergalactic spaceflight, hyperdimensional force fields, anti-plane-
tary weapons, and so on - in Traveller terms, the technology would pro-
bably be far beyond TL 20.
However, this "technology creep" did not at all reduce the series' or the
game's ability to create fascinating adventures, and the people are still
at the center of series and game.

 

[BP]

IIRC the phrase by Arthur C. Clarke goes - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Ah, well ... not the most covincing of Clarke's phrases.

It only makes sense if people believe that magic does exist and does
work, otherwise they know perfectly well that it is technology, they
just do not know how it works.[/quote]
Yeah, he has some really good ones - though, I figure this one is more cynical in tone and less literal - meaning they not only don't know how it works, but can't fathom how in their understanding, therefore equivalent to magic.

As for the OPs complaint that MGT didn't overhaul Traveller TL - I suspect that would have exceeded their license.

Personnally, I like not having a setting where extreme tech is prevalent - it allows me to introduce it as a plot device and keeps it special.

 

[rust]

Personnally, I like not having a setting where extreme tech is prevalent - it allows me to introduce it as a plot device and keeps it special.

Yep, the technology of my settings is usually close to Traveller's TL 8 / 9,
although with a couple of "modernizations" and additions.

Since many of the characters in my campaigns are engineers or scien-
tists, it makes sense to stay close to the real world science and techno-
logy. This makes it easier for the players to understand what their cha-
racters know, how their equipment works and how to use the technology
for their own improvisations and inventions.

 

[alex_greene]

IIRC the phrase by Arthur C. Clarke goes - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Ah, well ... not the most covincing of Clarke's phrases.

It only makes sense if people believe that magic does exist and does
work, otherwise they know perfectly well that it is technology, they
just do not know how it works.

Not everyone even knows how science works. For such people, the world is full of literally inexplicable wonders.

Most of them lose this sense of wonder about the age that someone tells them that Santa Claus does not exist. Some never do.

 

[Vargr]

For example, Star Wars, (...) In some ways that's what Traveller is.

I think you might be making a gross comparison there, mate. We may point at the scientific errors and dated assumptions that Travellers makes all day long, but the truth of the matter is that the game as internal consistency...something lacking entirely in Star Wars. Big Lucas himself said more than once that SW is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction.

I would say that is the major difference between the two settings.

Don't get me wrong, I like the game. But I think it needs a bit of an overhaul.

According to some old-time fans it has undergone a overhaul and went to far. You are talking about a matter of pure personal preference. Lots of people seem to think its fine as it is, other think it changed to much; others complain it has not changed enough. I guess you can't please Greeks and Trojans simultaneously.

And as I said before, I thought MG missed the boat when they didn't give it one before they republished it.

What? And allienate even more of the crowd of veterans than they already did, in the hopes of attracting a few new fans that can't wrap their heads around a setting that don't have buckets on nanotech and biotech?

I just began playing Traveller very recently, but I'm glad MGT kept the old feel. It's one of the things that makes the game unique.

 

[GamerDude]

Sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic ( or something like that )...

Extreme Traveller tech = D&D :shock: :lol:

IIRC the phrase by Arthur C. Clarke goes - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Of course, for most people on earth today - this is true of computers, medicines and other tech

As the self-righteous new-age-ie libralites in my area like to say when that quote is brought up: Any magic, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from technology.

Helps that most of the group are a tight mix of wiccans, druids, pagans, and what not and hate anything that smacks of classical literature or learning.

 

[Ishmael]

Well..here's one quote I can get right

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future."
Niels Bohr

I'm all for the inclusion of latest advances, but the OTU is built on assumptions based on 70's science and to include the latest advances in an accurate manner might destroy the OTU ( not that *I'd* care, but many seem to ) or at least change it in unforeseen ways.

But why bother unless things (like the UWP profile, for example) are made more accurate to known science?

One thing that does cheese me off is how some people drive to apply science in an obsessive manner on some things, yet pass it over or ignore it in others by saying, "It's in the future. They'll have worked it out by then." or rambling off technobabble just to sound authentic.

You could play D&D on a world, complete with magic and demons and demi-gods...just put a Krell machine a couple of hundred kilometers under the crust. Whammo! its Sci-Fi.

 

[rust]

I'm all for the inclusion of latest advances, but the OTU is built on assumptions based on 70's science and to include the latest advances in an accurate manner might destroy the OTU ( not that *I'd* care, but many seem to ) or at least change it in unforeseen ways.

Yes, I agree where the Third Imperium setting is concerned, to "update"
it would change its character and turn it into a different setting.
However, I would not agree where Traveller in general is concerned, and
I really hope that future generic Traveller supplements will include more
"updated" technology for other settings than the Third Imperium.

One thing that does cheese me off is how some people drive to apply science in an obsessive manner on some things, yet pass it over or ignore it in others by saying, "It's in the future. They'll have worked it out by then." or rambling off technobabble just to sound authentic.

Ah, my favourite dilemma.

I really wish I could find a plausible explanation for a hyperdrive and for
antigravity devices, these are the two pieces of "magic" I did not yet ma-
nage to get rid off in my settings. Everything else is as "sound" as I can
make it, but in these cases I just have to accept some handwaving to
make the setting possible.