Traveller Map crazy temperatures

[JustEastOfTheEdge]

I have recently been playing about with the absolute superb resource that is the TravellerMap site.
There are two things I cannot understand.

I used Gloire as my example.

When it generates if seems to make a rather bleak desert world which seems at old with its "agricultural" description.
Under "Map Actions" is an option to "Remove the twilight zone", which then makes the green all blue and green as I would have expected. But what does this option really mean?

And "Atmosphere and Temperature details" strike me as somewhat extreme for many worlds I have examined.
Gloire has Upper Temperature Limit 1110°C

I wouldn't go there for a summer holiday.

What am I doing or assuming wrongly?

 

[Vidgar]

I agree, a New Home in the REFT (Island System) appear a like Canada in winter at the equator?

Who do I talk to about this ??

 

[Shardan13]

Seems to me that the orbit number is wrong. If the star types allow for fractional types but the orbits are in whole numbers then the main worlds are outside the habital zone. For example New Home's orbit as recorded by Travellermap is orbit 4 (1.6 AU) but the habital zone as per world builder's handbook is between orbit 2.6 - 3.3 (0.88 - 1.18 AU). Older editions of Traveller may have recorded it as 3 so that New Home at orbit 4 is just outside the habital zone.

 

[Vidgar]

Thank you Shardan13,
Yes, now with a Orbit of 3 (1 AU) the year round temperature at the equator is 27 degree C (Hawaii)

So how good is the World Builder's handbook?

 

[Bill Sheil]

One of the problems that the new Mongoose World Builders Handbook highlighted was that the albedo calculations (absorption factor) should have a fourth root applied in the world temperature calculations. This is consistent with Stefan-Boltzmann radiation equations but Classic Book 6 got it wrong (applying the absorption linearly) and the T5 Traveller Worlds calculations (used in TravellerMap 'Generate') have inherited this error. (@Geir gets it right in Mongoose World Builders').

There was a built-in scaling factor in the CT Book 6 calculations that mean that worlds with the same albedo as Terra (0.3) should be correct, but worlds with higher albedos are colder than they should be; and worlds with lower albedos are hotter.

However the greenhouse factors described in TravellerMap seem to have the fourth roots baked-in so should be applied directly.

 

[Vidgar]

Thanks, once I get a translator to decode your message I will hopefully understand it.
So the Traveler Map has an small error, not complaining. That Map is wonderful and I am amazed at the knowledge of those who created it.
Ok, I just need to adjust the worlds I use, if need be.

Might be the world building

Thanks

 

[Bill Sheil]

It is not TravellerMap per-se but the (unofficial) T5 Traveller Worlds software that is linked to it (through the 'Generate' button). It is experimental and non-canon (check out the Terra system, I dare you!). The error can be quite large, some habitable zone worlds are (incorrectly) near absolute zero.

Traveller Map has its own problems with errors in the UWP scanning conflicting with original material and the wiki.

 

[Bill Sheil]

Who do I talk to about this ??

I have been trying to register with COTI to raise this with the guy who maintains the Traveller Worlds document and code but the registration is unresponsive. There is a Git repository, though.

For the moment bear in mind that the Traveller Map 'generate' function is non-canon and erroneous and use World Builders instead if you have a problem.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Yeah, Worlds does some... odd things. It assumes any mainworld of a KV or MV star will be one faced (semi-reasonable but Mercury says hi), and even though it allows you to override that (I am declaring my world of interest is a doublet (I don't want it to be one faced, and it's got a balkanized government so hey, why not one for each world), so there), it redraws the map but does not recalculate temperatures.

 

[GypsyComet]

Traveller Map has its own problems with errors in the UWP scanning conflicting with original material and the wiki.

If a sector is listed as "Official" it has been vetted under one or more criteria. Worlds or systems with issues were corrected, even if that meant conflicting with original publications. The Marches have been adjusted less due to the sheer weight of multiple prior publications, but most everywhere else has had astrophysics, T5 rules, and "what the...?" reviews at least attempted.

Sectors "In Review" or "Unofficial" won't necessarily have had that level of review, but may still have had some checking that changed a few things.

 

[Bill Sheil]

If a sector is listed as "Official" it has been vetted under one or more criteria. Worlds or systems with issues were corrected, even if that meant conflicting with original publications.

This is not the problem. The problem is that the initial data was scanned incorrectly. For example Aramis/Aramis (Spinward Marches 3110) had a UWP of A6B0556-B. But in Traveller Map it is now A5A0556B - and for no good reason at all, ,especially given the general complaint that there were "too many size 5 worlds" in the original cartography.

The issue here was that the size digit '6' was mis-scanned as a '5' and then, because the atmosphere 'B' had become "illegal" with the (incorrect) size it then got "corrected" to 'A' instead, without anyone double checking or referencing any of the existing source material or the wiki. The inconsistencies are not being double checked before corrections are made..

 

[Geir]

This is not the problem. The problem is that the initial data was scanned incorrectly. For example Aramis/Aramis (Spinward Marches 3110) had a UWP of A6B0556-B. But in Traveller Map it is now A5A0556B - and for no good reason at all, ,especially given the general complaint that there were "too many size 5 worlds" in the original cartography.

The issue here was that the size digit '6' was mis-scanned as a '5' and then, because the atmosphere 'B' had become "illegal" with the (incorrect) size it then got "corrected" to 'A' instead, without anyone double checking or referencing any of the existing source material or the wiki. The inconsistencies are not being double checked before corrections are made..

My 'favourite' scan error is Dallia in District 268: Was B8B5883 in Supplement 3 (was going to say LBB, but it was orange) is now B885883. As late as GURPS Traveller it was described as having a corrosive atmosphere. Now it's a rich world...

 

[Bill Sheil]

And the wiki still describes the residents as living underground and subsisting on recycled water and nutrient extractions to avoid the "nasty" surface conditions even though the trade classification now has it as a garden world.

And for reference these UWPs were consistent throughout CT, MT and TNE. So there is no prior inconsistency in the sources to excuse the changes.