Torpedoes In A Fighter

[Solomani666]

Yes those darn Terellians are back! Now in 2.0!

I'm finalizing my design for a 40 ton TL 16 fighter using the 2.0 rules.
I plan to add 2 or 4 torpedoes in internal bays above the 2 firm points that are already allocated for beam weapons.

What do you think would be a reasonable allocation for fire control tonnage and the cost.

 

[phavoc]

Well, you are proposing a 40 ton fighter having up to 15 tons of ordnance. Not that a space craft couldn't do it, but that's a pretty hefty percentage of space allocated to weaponry.

Fire control should remain constant regardless of the number of torps you are carrying. The bigger question would be what sort of mechanisms are required to mount the torps. Since you mention internal bays, it's not reasonable to assume you could have one without additional expenditure of displacement to hold them. 25% - 50% additional tonnage is not unreasonable.

For externally mounted torps you just need a mechanism that holds them until they need to be fired. Since they are external they shouldn't take up internal space, however the rules try to keep players within boundaries, so it's somewhat fair to still have a displacement cost associated to them.

 

[Solomani666]

Well, you are proposing a 40 ton fighter having up to 15 tons of ordnance. Not that a space craft couldn't do it, but that's a pretty hefty percentage of space allocated to weaponry.

Fire control should remain constant regardless of the number of torps you are carrying. The bigger question would be what sort of mechanisms are required to mount the torps. Since you mention internal bays, it's not reasonable to assume you could have one without additional expenditure of displacement to hold them. 25% - 50% additional tonnage is not unreasonable.

For externally mounted torps you just need a mechanism that holds them until they need to be fired. Since they are external they shouldn't take up internal space, however the rules try to keep players within boundaries, so it's somewhat fair to still have a displacement cost associated to them.

Thanks for the reply.

Internal bays similar to a modern stealth fighter.

What would you estimate the cost to be?

 

[Solomani666]

Well, you are proposing a 40 ton fighter having up to 15 tons of ordnance. Not that a space craft couldn't do it, but that's a pretty hefty percentage of space allocated to weaponry.

I mean 4 individual torpedoes total.
Each masses 0.33 tons.

 

[EldritchFire]

The only way for a small craft to mount torpedoes is via a barbette—and according to pg. 23 of HG 2e, a barbette consumes 2 firmpoints. Also, pg. 25, in the barbette description, it says "Each barbette consumes a total of 5 tons."

3 extra torpedoes, per pg. 31, take up one ton.

To answer your question, it'll cost 5 tons internally "for capacitors, targeting mechanisms, ammunition feeds and other components", and 1 ton for 3 more torpedoes. For a total of 5 torpedoes—2 ready to fire in the barbette and 3 'spare'. If you have the extra tonnage available, I'd spring for 2 tons of torpedoes, for a total of 6 extra. That gives you 3 full reloads, instead of 1.5 reloads.

 

[Solomani666]

To answer your question, it'll cost 5 tons internally "for capacitors, targeting mechanisms, ammunition feeds and other components", and 1 ton for 3 more torpedoes. For a total of 5 torpedoes—2 ready to fire in the barbette and 3 'spare'. If you have the extra tonnage available, I'd spring for 2 tons of torpedoes, for a total of 6 extra. That gives you 3 full reloads, instead of 1.5 reloads.

No reloads, no loader, no ordinance feed, basically just a pylon with a cover or a sealed tube.

 

[Condottiere]

First edition was very clear about torpedoes and smallcraft; but a torpedo also weighed in at two and a half tonnes.

Personally, I'd like a Swordfish analogue.

 

[phavoc]

The only way for a small craft to mount torpedoes is via a barbette—and according to pg. 23 of HG 2e, a barbette consumes 2 firmpoints. Also, pg. 25, in the barbette description, it says "Each barbette consumes a total of 5 tons."

3 extra torpedoes, per pg. 31, take up one ton.

To answer your question, it'll cost 5 tons internally "for capacitors, targeting mechanisms, ammunition feeds and other components", and 1 ton for 3 more torpedoes. For a total of 5 torpedoes—2 ready to fire in the barbette and 3 'spare'. If you have the extra tonnage available, I'd spring for 2 tons of torpedoes, for a total of 6 extra. That gives you 3 full reloads, instead of 1.5 reloads.

Yeah, this rule doesn't make sense for small craft. They can mount their ordance externally, thus they only need displacement for mounting brackets (assuming they carry them like aircraft would carry missiles - excluding stealth craft. Since there isn't stealth in that sense in space (different discussion), there would be no real need to carry missiles or torpedoes internally.

I didn't catch the displacement change to .33 Dtons per torpedo. That's a big change from torps displacing 2.5 dtons each. I need to go look that one up.

Thanks for the reply.

Internal bays similar to a modern stealth fighter.

What would you estimate the cost to be?

For an internal bay, it's not unreasonable to assume a 33% - 50% additional displacement to hold the missile. If you look at pre-packaged missiles today, when you account for the box itself and then mounting brackets and such, it's in the same ballbark. Plus you'll have some internal bracing, machinery, power, sensors, etc, that you can include in the that displacement. It's a reasonable and defensible rule, and those are the best kinds of rules for me.

 

[Condottiere]

Current trend is for internal bays; there are some advantages to this method of storage.

 

[EldritchFire]

To answer your question, it'll cost 5 tons internally "for capacitors, targeting mechanisms, ammunition feeds and other components", and 1 ton for 3 more torpedoes. For a total of 5 torpedoes—2 ready to fire in the barbette and 3 'spare'. If you have the extra tonnage available, I'd spring for 2 tons of torpedoes, for a total of 6 extra. That gives you 3 full reloads, instead of 1.5 reloads.

No reloads, no loader, no ordinance feed, basically just a pylon with a cover or a sealed tube.

If you don't want any additional reloads, then go with 5.66 tons. The torpedo barbette is pretty much an external version of what you're looking for—as the barbette is described as a heavy turret. It has all the guidance systems and firing mechanisms for 2 torpedoes. Just what you asked for. It's just internally mounted instead of externally. Add an extra 2/3rds of a ton for the warheads (since it's internal and not external, and 1dT is 2 torpedoes).

From your description, I'm envisioning the scene in The Avengers where they launch the nuke at NY. The bay doors open, the torpedo is aligned and dropped. So you're going to need some tonnage for the bay door controls, the internal 'arm' that moves the torpedo into firing position, etc. With all that, I think the 5dT from the barbette is a good starting point.

 

[Solomani666]

I allocated 1 ton per 2 torpedoes with the remaining .33 tons being for the launching mechanisms.
I haven't decided if this will be forward facing tubes or a bay with cargo doors yet.