Too close to the original

[Libris]

This stuff is nice and has renewed my interest in Traveller but the only problem I see is that this version is too similar to the original.

So close in fact that my Far Future reprints with a page (or two) of house rules would be the same.

Just like the Mongoose Runequest in fact. I went to buy it when it came out and after flicking through it thought, wait, I've already got this and put it back on the shelf - quite uncharacteristic of me since I've been buying since before the original LBBs.

 

[Border Reiver]

I sort of agree with you but will still buy (well I've pre-ordered, too late to change my mind, neh? ). Mainly because this looks like it will be the future of Traveller despite what all us old grognards think. These will be the rules the new blood will be using, the rules that most if not all supplement and official background will be using and will probably be best supported of any rules (I hope anyway :? )

I've been buying since before the original LBBs.

I take it you mean games in general and not Traveller since there were nowt before the LBBB's. :lol: :lol:

 

[Libris]

I've been buying since before the original LBBs.

I take it you mean games in general and not Traveller since there were nowt before the LBBB's. :lol: :lol:

Yes. Bought Traveller after reading the review in White Dwarf.

 

[SableWyvern]

I've been buying since before the original LBBs.

I take it you mean games in general and not Traveller since there were nowt before the LBBB's. :lol: :lol:

Yes. Bought Traveller after reading the review in White Dwarf.

White Dwarf reviewing RPGs, and other companies' at that? Wasn't that back in the 1930s or something? :wink:

 

[Libris]

White Dwarf reviewing RPGs, and other companies' at that? Wasn't that back in the 1930s or something? :wink:

Ha, Ha! Almost.

I think it was issue 6 and I'd have been in 2nd Year at Kilmarnock Academy.

I still feel that on current evidence that it is a cleaned up LBB and not a new edition. The starship section sealed it and misses the opportunity to unify the High Guard and LBB rules. I didn't use any of the LBB Starship design rules after High Guard came out.

 

[Allensh]

I don't mean this as any kind of insult...but you aren't the target audience for this game. Traveller needs NEW blood in order to regain prominence.

As for the ship design system...all that needs to be done is to ensure that the "advanced" ship design system, when it debuts, has expanded options and yet remains consistent with this system in terms of costs and tonnage and such. There are a few differences in the Mongoose Traveller ship construction system and Book 2; I don't recall being able to choose different electronics suites, for example, or stealth coatings or things like that. I am very happy with the ship construction system (power plant table mistake notwithstanding) and am looking forward to using it more.

Allen

 

[Libris]

I don't mean this as any kind of insult...but you aren't the target audience for this game. Traveller needs NEW blood in order to regain prominence.

True, but the old blood will still be a significant market so why not get it to appeal all demographics.

As for the ship design system...all that needs to be done is to ensure that the "advanced" ship design system, when it debuts, has expanded options and yet remains consistent with this system in terms of costs and tonnage and such. There are a few differences in the Mongoose Traveller ship construction system and Book 2; I don't recall being able to choose different electronics suites, for example, or stealth coatings or things like that. I am very happy with the ship construction system (power plant table mistake notwithstanding) and am looking forward to using it more.

Allen

Like I said easily dealt with with a page (or two) of house rules.

 

[Mongoose Gar]

Out of curiosity, Libris, what changes were you expecting?

 

[Libris]

Out of curiosity, Libris, what changes were you expecting?

More of an integration of the various versions using the best parts of each version to present a hybrid rather than a reprint.

For example, why two starship design sequences? High Guard was a much better system than the original in that it could duplicate the "small starship" universe of Book 2 and cope with a 500,000 eyeball of death. That's not to say that you should incorporated spinal mounts and things, these are for another book but the main rulebook should make passing mention of 50 ton imperial fighters, the size of warships, imperial marines, etc. more flavour stuff if you like.

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Guys I am one of those old timers that has played Traveller sinc it first
came out some 30 years ago. Now I like Traveller anything, and am very
happy that after all these years someone is still producing new products.

Now I have decided to make the move to use Hero System, and I like
ComStars Traveller Hero and new Era 1248 time too. I do not want to
rehash 1110 up to 1125-1130 era again...and the Virus stuff all over
again! I didn't like it much the first time, and care to just move past it.

So having a Traveller friendly wallet, I will buy anything Traveller that
I can use as a resource for Traveller. All I ask is it be sold as a "printed"
soft or hard copy book for sale, I will not buy .pdfs.

Penn

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Also from what I have seen Mongoose Traveller is just fine as it is.

Penn

 

[EDG]

For example, why two starship design sequences? High Guard was a much better system than the original in that it could duplicate the "small starship" universe of Book 2 and cope with a 500,000 eyeball of death. That's not to say that you should incorporated spinal mounts and things, these are for another book but the main rulebook should make passing mention of 50 ton imperial fighters, the size of warships, imperial marines, etc. more flavour stuff if you like.

One problem with CT is that you have this "small ship universe" based on Book 2, and then you have a "big ship universe" based on Book 5, and apparently the the feel of the setting is very different in each one. It's yet another cause of argument that doesn't have to be there.

It would IMO be much better if Mongoose just skipped the Book 2 subset (which I believe isn't even compatible with the Book 5 rules) and just used High Guard as a base, and allowed people to design ships of any size with the same rules and without arbitrary limits.

 

[Allensh]

You can still have the two systems be compatible as long as the numbers match. In fact they don't actually have to be two systems; the core book just stop at 2,500 tons because it is not likely that a typical PC group will have or need ships larger than that. Space is an issue, of course. Better this than no ship design system at all, which is what I thought was originally the plan. The new High Guard does not have to present an incompatible system as was the case in CT; it can simply be an expanded version of this one.

Allen

 

[AKAramis]

It would IMO be much better if Mongoose just skipped the Book 2 subset (which I believe isn't even compatible with the Book 5 rules) and just used High Guard as a base, and allowed people to design ships of any size with the same rules and without arbitrary limits.

Problem:
Marc apparently went with lettered drives for T5. (Prices differ between what I've seen of T5 and here...)

Supposedly no more half-million ton ships, either, in T5.

Marc's apparently a Medium Ships Heretic (I've seen indicators of a limit around 20KTd in RObject's posts on COTI.)

 

[Allensh]

That's gonna tick off people like shadowcat who like to build million-ton monstrosities.

Allen

 

[Dyrewulf]

I don't mean this as any kind of insult...but you aren't the target audience for this game. Traveller needs NEW blood in order to regain prominence.

It is the old timers that will drive the market, and pick up the fresh blood as they hit them while jay walking along the way.

I feel that this traveller should be an upgrade to all things traveller. I broke out my old books with the playtest document and went.."Hmmm its pretty much the same".
Now don't get me wrong, I like that...makes me feel like I don't have to re-learn a game system...much like the D&D d20 v7,233,405.5B. But I would like a more modern feel to this classic game.

New ways to handle homeworld/background education skills...new equipment...maybe even company names added to the laser rifle and have 3-4 varients based on company...with minor alterations in between...sure I can easily just write down some and add it into my game, but I want a reason to pick up this book other than its print date is 2008 and not 1977. I think somewhere it was mentioned that these rules were supposed to be the generic ruleset for several different games...Starship Troopers, Bab5, Judge Dredd, etc etc...well the TL needs to be revamped so that it's not so much a traveller TL unless those revamps would be inluded in the various campaign settings.

Just my 2 credits.

 

[SableWyvern]

I think somewhere it was mentioned that these rules were supposed to be the generic ruleset for several different games...Starship Troopers, Bab5, Judge Dredd, etc etc...well the TL needs to be revamped so that it's not so much a traveller TL unless those revamps would be inluded in the various campaign settings.

Just my 2 credits.

I can't see any real need for TL as they're presented here at all when playing those games ... tech in those cases is more likely to be divided along cultural or species lines.

 

[AKAramis]

Out of curiosity, Libris, what changes were you expecting?

More of an integration of the various versions using the best parts of each version to present a hybrid rather than a reprint.

For example, why two starship design sequences? High Guard was a much better system than the original in that it could duplicate the "small starship" universe of Book 2 and cope with a 500,000 eyeball of death. That's not to say that you should incorporated spinal mounts and things, these are for another book but the main rulebook should make passing mention of 50 ton imperial fighters, the size of warships, imperial marines, etc. more flavour stuff if you like.

Actually, it didn't duplicate the small ship universes well... the combat system was not suitable for anything less than grandiose.

One could design small ships and reverse engineer the letters for damage purposes, but the two played worlds apart.

Heck, each edition's starship combat was notably different in scope and feel...
CT Bk2: Damage cumulates, all hits "damage" something. Vector Movement. Bigger ships tougher just by being bigger and thus having more hits in drives, etc.
CT Bk5: Damage by Critical; some hits may do no damage; a drive hit does same effect to capital ships as to scouts... Abstract movement, no tactical movement.
MT: CT Bk5 with better skill integration, and non-newtonian tactical movement.
TNE: Vector movement, mildly cumulative damage system. Big ships tougher both by sheer size and by thicker armor.
T4: uh... It was so bad that I forgot!
T20: Vector movement, cumulative hit points to structure, but lots of function criticals. Bigger ships slow down in gain in hit points above a certain size.

What we have here is a system with full functionality for ships up to 2000 tons. And it's possible to cram a M6 into a 100Td Hull now, since the PP C won't be eating 60 Td of fuel (a Mere 6, in fact, per 2 weeks)
Still can't do a non-drop-tank J6 100Td ship. (JDC=20, PPC=10, JFuel=60, Bridge=10, PPFuel=6, Sensors=1)

And it looks a lot like what Robject's posted from the final playtests of T5....

But it does do a respectable Type A2...

 

[Dyrewulf]

I can't see any real need for TL as they're presented here at all when playing those games ... tech in those cases is more likely to be divided along cultural or species lines.

In one aspect I can agree with you, however even if it isn't for the other campaign settings, I just think the TL should be given a "face lift".

I just think that with how our own technology has progressed, and Mongoose doing the latest version of Traveller its TL should get a facelift, taking into account things that are in the here and now...not 5 centuries away...like cloning, our computer sciences are far more advanced than what was invisioned in the 70's, technology in general is making leaps and bounds every day...I just feel that an upgrade of the tech level should be done.

 

[GamerDude]

I don't mean this as any kind of insult...but you aren't the target audience for this game. Traveller needs NEW blood in order to regain prominence.

Allen,

It needs the existing/old school players too. Not only does it need our purchases but who will be the ones to promote the game?

If it's being advertised as being back to the roots of Classic Traveller, then it needs to be close where it makes sense, appeal to the hard core fans of the original game.