TL's detail

[DFW]

In designing my next campaign world I decided to use the SRD as a base to modify from. As I want greater detail I started at the "beginning".

The items below are pretty much in order of invention on Earth, even f not in widespread use at the time.

TL 0: (Primitive) 1 M.B.C. To ~12,000 B.C. : Stone age. Fire, Spears, Bow, Primitive shelters, Felt cloth, Needle thread, Early ceramics, Boats.

TL 1: (Primitive) Bronze & Iron age technology. Agriculture, Alcoholic beverages, Granaries, Copper work, Animal husbandry, Woven flax cloth, Irrigation, Ploughs, Beer & bread, Wheel and axle combination, Canals, Engineered roadways, Writing, carts, Water drainage projects, Dental surgery, Bronze, Silk, Cement, River boats, Sewage systems, Alphabet, Currency, Candles, Glass, Spoked wheel chariots, Water clock, Bells, Catapult, Coins, Sugar, Trebuchet, Compass, Screw, Crossbow, Compound pulley, Odometer, Clockwork mechanisms, Astrolabe, Parchment, Glass blowing, Rolling element bearing, Aeolipile, Paper, Wheelbarrow, Horseshoes, Crucible steel, Stirrup, Windmill, Greek fire, Quill pen, Gunpowder, Parachute, Horse collar, Solid Rocket, Woodblock printing, Porcelain, Spinning wheel, Bead Abacus, Movable type, Cannon, Eyeglasses, Mechanical clocks, Sandpaper.

 

[Rick]

Leonardo da Vinci designed (but didn't build) a lot of items at a low tech level but they weren't useable until much further on. Perhaps drop some of the items (such as parachute) until you reach the tech level where a working prototype (at least) is available.

If I remember right, the old Fire Fusion and Steel book had a variable TL bit in it, where a culture could have an average TL, but be behind or ahead of that in some specific areas. Sort of TL 6 overall, but maybe 7 or 8 in medicine, TL 5 in metallurgy?

 

[DFW]

Yeah, that's an item I could leave for TL 2-3. The rest were of the items on the list were operational I believe.

 

[rust]

Leonardo da Vinci designed (but didn't build) a lot of items at a low tech level but they weren't useable until much further on.

The parachute was known and almost certainly used even before Leonardo. :wink:

 

[far-trader]

You might also need to choose first, at least for yourself, just what TL means, if you haven't already.

Is it the average or highest achieved idea level?

eg. Helicopter - imagined by Da'Vinci c1500s

The average or highest invention level?

eg. Helicopter - Paul Cornu in 1907 (failed)

The average or highest experimental success level?

eg. Helicopter - Etienne Oehmichen in 1924 (flew 1km)

The average or highest achieved mass manufacturing level?

eg. Helicopter - Igor Sikorsky c1940

The average or highest understanding and maintenance level?

eg. Helicopter - c1800s ?

You can see what defining TL will do for setting items into the TL and describing the TL.

I go with highest achieved mass manufacturing level myself. There may be ideas well beyond that level but they can't be properly implemented locally. There will be some experimental cutting edge stuff just a little above it, but the PCs and general public won't have access to it normally. And the society may be able to maintain items of higher TL but not likely to proper standards.

 

[far-trader]

The parachute was known and almost certainly used even before Leonardo. :wink:

I'm guessing from the wink you're imagining the classic daredevil childhood stunt of jumping off the roof with a large blanket held over head, or a big umbrella. Generally ending in a trip to the hospital for a cast

I think we have to discuss successful uses in this context

 

[rust]

I'm guessing from the wink you're imagining the classic daredevil childhood stunt of jumping off the roof with a large blanket held over head, or a big umbrella. Generally ending in a trip to the hospital for a cast

No, there have been several recorded uses of primitive parachutes both
in medieval China and in medieval Europe - "classic daredevil inventor
stunts" - but they indeed tended to result in injuries, much like the huge
majority of experiments with primitive gliders, which usually also resulted
in broken legs.

The first well documented successful use of a parachute was in 1617 in
Venice by Fauste Veranzio, who used something much like da Vinci's de-
sign to jump from a tower.

 

[far-trader]

Right you are rust, those slipped my mind.

Your reply recalls another point too, tying TLs to western Terran dates. Generally not a solid idea.

There are many cultures preceding that invented and even solidly applied ideas ages before the west. Just as a cautionary reminder for the development of your ideas DFW, though I'm sure you're aware of it.

PS - I seem to recall Jame Rowe (?) doing a lot of work on TLs, early TLs as a focus. He might have some well developed ideas on it.

 

[DFW]

You might also need to choose first, at least for yourself, just what TL means, if you haven't already.

For my game, it is what you're likely to find in use due to what can be made at that TL without, reverse engineering higher TL items.

Btw fartrader. I figured out how to make air raft anti-grav different and limited in altitude from space drive grav tech. I'll probably post it within the next week.

 

[Rick]

You might also need to choose first, at least for yourself, just what TL means, if you haven't already.

For my game, it is what you're likely to find in use due to what can be made at that TL without, reverse engineering higher TL items.

Btw fartrader. I figured out how to make air raft anti-grav different and limited in altitude from space drive grav tech. I'll probably post it within the next week.

I think you've made a good distinction in that - after all there was a device found in an ancient egyptian tomb (TL 0-1) which turned out to be an early electric battery, but I don't think anyone expects them to be around much before TL 4 or maybe 5! :twisted:

 

[AndrewW]

You might also need to choose first, at least for yourself, just what TL means, if you haven't already.

For my game, it is what you're likely to find in use due to what can be made at that TL without, reverse engineering higher TL items.

Btw fartrader. I figured out how to make air raft anti-grav different and limited in altitude from space drive grav tech. I'll probably post it within the next week.

I think you've made a good distinction in that - after all there was a device found in an ancient egyptian tomb (TL 0-1) which turned out to be an early electric battery, but I don't think anyone expects them to be around much before TL 4 or maybe 5! :twisted:

There was the Baghdad Battery. So yup those earlier cultures can come up with things we didn't think they would have.

 

[far-trader]

Btw fartrader. I figured out how to make air raft anti-grav different and limited in altitude from space drive grav tech. I'll probably post it within the next week.

Colour me intrigued and curious

I await your sharing in eager antici...