Time Required to Learn New Sorcery Spells

[E221b]

So I've searched the forums and haven't been able to find a good answer for my question: what is the time required to learn a new sorcery spell?

When learning a new rune spell, it costs gold and it takes 1 day per point of magnitude you want to learn.

Since sorcery spells are skills, you need 2 skill checks to learn a new one and ideally a grimoire/library or teacher to learn the spell from. Or a powerful sorcerer might design a new spell herself. The former case (learning from a source), would probably take less time, and the latter case would take longer.

Is there an official ruling on time required to learn a new spell? Atm, my group has calculated a mechanic (which I can't remember off the top of my head) that uses the character's INT, so that characters with more INT learn spells in less time.

 

[Inspector Zero]

H'mm it's a good one.

Given you need to burn 2 Improvement Rolls to learn a sorcery spell and this is unlikely to be of the flash-bang sudden inspiration/insight variety I would apply the Practice and Research rules.

These say it takes one day for each 10% the character already possesses in a skill. Once the spell is learnt you'll have a % skill in it equal to your INT+POW. Therefore, you should on this basis be able to work out how long it will take to learn.

INT 15 + POW 15 = 30% therefore 3 days to learn. Characters with lower combined INT+POW would learn quicker (and therefore seem to have an advantage) but of course do not gain such a high starting skill % as those with higher combined INT+POW.

 

[E221b]

But it doesn't make sense (to me), to have a character with a higher INT and POW take LONGER to learn a spell.

 

[Inspector Zero]

But they don't. It takes everyone 1 day to learn 10% in a spell. It's just that characters with higher INT and POW learn a higher starting percentage than those with lower INT and POW - it seems sensible that learning a greater competence/insight in a skill will take a bit more time than just gaining a basic understanding.

 

[E221b]

Interesting point, though I'm not sure I completely agree. I'm also not so certain that only taking three or four days to learn a spell makes sense. Does that seem short to anyone (as in a character with INT 22 and POW 20, which I'm now playing, would take 4 days to learn a completely new spell)?

Are there any other opinions out there? From a completely game mechanic perspective, the time it would take to learn a new sorcery spell could be INVERSELY related to the character's INT + POW. Thoughts?

 

[EricJ]

What is the social context for a character learning or purchasing a new spell? It isn't as if one buys the formula from the local Spells R Us. If a character is learning a spell from his Order's Grimoire, the constraint is the way his Order schedules his access to the book. I would then suggest a contested roll: Read Grimoire versus a spell rating chosen by the GM. Give bonuses for preparation and penalties for the obscurity of the book. The Blue Grimoire of the Order of the White Star might have Predict Weather (40) but Form/Set Water (73) because of transliteration errors.

Critical Success: The character learns the spell at (INT + POW + 5)%, and the difficulty of all other spells in the book is modified by -10%.

Success: The character learns the spell at INT + POW%.

Failure: Tray again next session, whenever the Order permits.

Fumble: The character thinks he learns the spell. When he casts it in a stressful situation, though, he fumbles.

If hr learns the spell from another sorcerer or wizard, what id the sorcerer asking in return? To bring back a roc's egg? The Broomstick of the Wicked Witch of the West? The time that task takes will be far more than the time required to learn the spell.

 

[E221b]

For this particular character, she is either learning the spell from her copy of the Abiding Book, from books in the sorcerous library where she lives (we're playing in the 3rd age, and one long campaign arc involved recovering huge amounts of sorcerous materials from the ruins of Jrustela and other places), or she's creating the spell herself, by experimenting/research/etc.

There is no particular limit the availability of any of her sources - though I would like a slightly more universal ruling, all things being equal. As in, yes there might be quests to do and limits depending on character and situation, but how many base hours/days does it take to learn that spell? It might take 4 weeks to get the troll treasure or 1 month if the sorcerer can only read the book for 30 minutes a day, but there still should be a calculation for the BASE amount of time.

 

[Denalor]

Just a side note: INT22 ? What race is this ? No human definitely... or how did you get beyond the human max of 21 ?

 

[E221b]

Both Heroquesting and integrating an appropriate rune (Man or Earth) can raise a character's racial maximum. My (legendary) character had a INT of 21 before integrating a Man rune and now her maximum has been raised by 1 to 22.

EDIT: I removed my digression regarding the power level of my campaign in order to not de-rail the thread (I mentioned a character with a 29 INT from a heroquest). My GM has been runing Runequest for many years (I've only been playing for a few), but I personally am not happy with his ruling for spell learning time - that's why I asked. Thanks for the help in advance

 

[Inspector Zero]

If you can live with characters with such stratospheric stats and have been doing so for over 20 years I don't think you need any advice from people on the forum about how long it takes to learn a spell. Just make something up - I'm sure it'll fit in.

As (another) side issue it raises an interesting point about species maximum doesn't it? If a value of 21 represents the summit/limit of the human body or intellect what does INT 29 represent (apart from increased stat bonuses)? How have you tried to make this come across in your roleplaying?

 

[E221b]

Any other opinions?

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

How long to learn sorcery?

BRPs rulings are;

Learning it from a library, research on your own, with facilities, 1D10 weeks, modified by how well you know the language.

Learning from someones grimoire, roll your INT x 1once per week, success means the spell is learned.

Being taught it by someone, INT x 1 per game week as well.

Accepting a 'gift' of sorcery, from a higher power, immediate.

 

[E221b]

Can you please include the books and page numbers for these rulings for me? I'd love to read them for myself.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Can you please include the books and page numbers for these rulings for me? I'd love to read them for myself.

Sure, no problem.

Pages 124 - 126 of the latest BRP rules.

 

[E221b]

?? Okay, I have every MRQ book out now, and I can't find these rules on those pages in either the basic (slightly outdated) MRQ Basic book and Companion or in Runequest Deluxe or in any of the other books I've searched those pages through (most MRQ books have less than 100 pages). So what book exactly?

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Sorry, confusion there, Im talking about Chaosiums Basic Roleplaying. Their latest version of the Runequest rules. Or BRP for short. I run a campaign using a hybrid of BRP and MRQ. I find lots of things in one that complement the rules in the other. And theyre both fairly close, ruleswise.

 

[E221b]

Ahh I have the older chaosium RQ stuff from way back when, but I thought they had lost the license? What edition? I still have their old 2nd edition stuff.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Well, theres a long story to it all that I dont pretend to know all the in's and out's of. Suffice to say, that, had they still the licence, BRP might be called 'Runequest IV' or 'V' or whatever. Stafford gained back the rights to the name 'Runequest' when it slipped from the grip of Avalon Hill way back. Mongoose leases this name from Stafford, as far as I am aware, but I dont mind being corrected on that one.

Anyways, Chaosiums new Basic Roleplaying is pretty smart. It contains all the variant rules from Runequest, Stormbringer, Hawkmoon, Superworld, etc.. It lacks the rules for Divine magic, but its great as a system in its own right.

Now, I love MRQ as well, and use lots from it in my campaigns, so Im not advocating another product on someone elses site. (Well, I dont mean to). Its just Im not keen on stuff like hit point locations, and other bits, and so I use the total hit point thing and the variable armour protection rules from basic roleplaying in my own MRQ campaigns.