I cringed to tell this; but "I am Back!"
Just a Quick advertisement for:
The Thurian Continent: Conan D20 RPG Site
Nialldubh
Just a Quick advertisement for:
The Thurian Continent: Conan D20 RPG Site
Nialldubh
Thurian Continent [Conan]:
- Thread starter Nialldubh
- Start date
Supplement Four
Mongoose
Not too many of us here, Nial. There's me, King, and the occasional lurker.
Welcome back!
Welcome back!
Thanks King. 
Good to know that people are there...
Yes, I agree, I do believe that I add stuff to my forum not just for D20 Conan, but to assist any in their Conan games; just by ideas and possibilities.
I do enjoy other game systems also, OD&D, RQ, and a few other obscure games.
Keep rolling!
Good to know that people are there...
Yes, I agree, I do believe that I add stuff to my forum not just for D20 Conan, but to assist any in their Conan games; just by ideas and possibilities.
I do enjoy other game systems also, OD&D, RQ, and a few other obscure games.
Keep rolling!
No, I got the core book as hardback, as I gave money to their kickstarter, but the rest are PDFs also from KS, but I truly do not enjoy the system and feel; rather that it has been a wasted process, and I do feel the search for the best RPG system is still happening for the Hyborian Age.
I know the lot at Modphius are trying to keep it Conan canon, but this is impossible and they will add their own stuff and each Conan game will be different from each other. I also do not enjoy the unrealistic presence of the Red Sonja female hacking her way through Thuria, I bought the Conan novel to feel the vigour of the male spirit, not a fantasy. The Female rare warrioress should be like 0.00000001%, they got the image like 50/50%.
I try pondering a new system, taking what I enjoy from other game systems I have enjoyed through the years:
Mongoose D20.
Runequest.
OD&D and AD&D original or 3.5:
T&T:
Bushido:
And many more.
Hero with masses of hp kill game, but they should have many more than NPCs, I hate levels, I do not think it suits the Hyboria Age, it might suit AD&D 3.5, but not this. If Conan is 1st level by D20 rules, he may have 14 hps, but a 10th level laundresses from Thunder River has 45 hp, that is embarrassing and stupid, an old maid could slaughter a Youthful Conan that survived Venarium. In OD&D, they have Zero-level NPC for majority of NPC, this might be the best approach, it also allows for the hero savage assault through masses of foes in the S&S criteria, within reason; as 0-levels can be dangerous also if one is not careful!
I know the lot at Modphius are trying to keep it Conan canon, but this is impossible and they will add their own stuff and each Conan game will be different from each other. I also do not enjoy the unrealistic presence of the Red Sonja female hacking her way through Thuria, I bought the Conan novel to feel the vigour of the male spirit, not a fantasy. The Female rare warrioress should be like 0.00000001%, they got the image like 50/50%.
I try pondering a new system, taking what I enjoy from other game systems I have enjoyed through the years:
Mongoose D20.
Runequest.
OD&D and AD&D original or 3.5:
T&T:
Bushido:
And many more.
Hero with masses of hp kill game, but they should have many more than NPCs, I hate levels, I do not think it suits the Hyboria Age, it might suit AD&D 3.5, but not this. If Conan is 1st level by D20 rules, he may have 14 hps, but a 10th level laundresses from Thunder River has 45 hp, that is embarrassing and stupid, an old maid could slaughter a Youthful Conan that survived Venarium. In OD&D, they have Zero-level NPC for majority of NPC, this might be the best approach, it also allows for the hero savage assault through masses of foes in the S&S criteria, within reason; as 0-levels can be dangerous also if one is not careful!
The King
Cosmic Mongoose
I don't like levels either, nor do I like classes. Globally one could even play Conan with the Warhammer rules (1st or 2nd edition) or with the D6 rules (e.g. Star Wars from WEG). All the thing you have to do if you want to have true heroes in your games is to add Fate/Luck points (or whatever they may be called). This prevents stupid deaths. But I still think the world should still a place be very dangerous to live in, else it is no fun and just hack 'n slash.Nialldubh said:
Mulling over another Idea
That if Health/Life/Hit Points are based on Con.
Then, considering the notion of HP base on not just physical damage, but a weakening of the will to continue.
Try Luck Points: Based on Wis score and any bonus from Cha and Dex for example:
So, each Character as two scores:
Health Points and Luck Points; players can choose the score they want reduced, but with physical damage DR can reduce wound, where as with Luck Point, their is no reduction, but Player can state if he takes 10 damage, "7 from HP and 3 from LP!" Hence if he got 6DR (not considering AP: Armoured Piercing). He take 1 HP and 3 LP from that hit. A little more paper work, but not enough to lose sleep with.
Just a theory I thinking about!
That if Health/Life/Hit Points are based on Con.
Then, considering the notion of HP base on not just physical damage, but a weakening of the will to continue.
Try Luck Points: Based on Wis score and any bonus from Cha and Dex for example:
So, each Character as two scores:
Health Points and Luck Points; players can choose the score they want reduced, but with physical damage DR can reduce wound, where as with Luck Point, their is no reduction, but Player can state if he takes 10 damage, "7 from HP and 3 from LP!" Hence if he got 6DR (not considering AP: Armoured Piercing). He take 1 HP and 3 LP from that hit. A little more paper work, but not enough to lose sleep with.
Just a theory I thinking about!
The King
Cosmic Mongoose
Your system reminds me of health and stamina points, where stamina loss represents minor injuries and health loss represents damages that are more important. I still think Luck points (or fate points or whatever they are called) should be use as a one-way solution, like when a blow should kill a PC outright but he is saved at the last moment, say, like when Valeria appears from the dead to save Conan from a fatal blow (in the first movie).
Yes, well I would still be using fate points.
Stamina to me is like energy and does not describe the effect I trying to convey. But comprehend the results intended. Which relate mostly to fatigue and fatigue loss.
Luck Points are an invisible karma, force of spirit, which I would want to have as a different effect from the Fate Point option which is more like a cosmic intervention than person luck depletion effect.
It slow progresses, looking for the perfect system!
Stamina to me is like energy and does not describe the effect I trying to convey. But comprehend the results intended. Which relate mostly to fatigue and fatigue loss.
Luck Points are an invisible karma, force of spirit, which I would want to have as a different effect from the Fate Point option which is more like a cosmic intervention than person luck depletion effect.
It slow progresses, looking for the perfect system!
The King
Cosmic Mongoose
I really can't understand why you don't like the 2d20 system from Modiphius because it is really tailored to play heroes.
Otherwise, I did perform a sort of conversion of the d20 to the Mongoose RQII/Legend system, that is with many feats converted as extraordinary abilities. I sent the files to Supplement Four, so you can ask him what he thinks about it (but be warned, he is a fanatic of the d20 system
).
Otherwise, I did perform a sort of conversion of the d20 to the Mongoose RQII/Legend system, that is with many feats converted as extraordinary abilities. I sent the files to Supplement Four, so you can ask him what he thinks about it (but be warned, he is a fanatic of the d20 system
).Supplement Four
Mongoose
The King said:I really can't understand why you don't like the 2d20 system from Modiphius because it is really tailored to play heroes.
Otherwise, I did perform a sort of conversion of the d20 to the Mongoose RQII/Legend system, that is with many feats converted as extraordinary abilities. I sent the files to Supplement Four, so you can ask him what he thinks about it (but be warned, he is a fanatic of the d20 system
Correction. I'm not a fanatic of the d20 System. In fact, I didn't play it for years because I didn't like the learning curve and the work it places on the GM. But, the Mongoose Conan RPG is freakin' fantastic--the best version of the d20 system ever designed.
Personally, I don't like Modiphius' 2d20 system for a number of reasons.
Here's an example.
You've got a Thief. He's in a cave, working on picking the lock to a chest. He rolls a complication, and for that, he puts two points in the DOOM pool.
Previously, all the DOOM points had been spent, and the DOOM pool was empty. Now, it has two points in it because of the Thief's complication.
Outside the cave, 200 yards away, is a warrior firing his bow at an approaching enemy. Now that the GM has points in the DOOM pool, he uses them to allow the approaching enemy to use the Dodge ability against the warrior's shot.
What do you have here? You've got the warrior suffering a harder shot because the thief rolled a complication in a cave, 200 yards away!
That's horrible game design!
And, look at the antagonistic relationship it creates between GM and player. If you are playing the warrior, firing that bow, you feel like the GM is picking on you? "Hey, GM! Why is my shot hindered because Timmy the Thief just created some DOOM points. Why do I have to pay for his bad roll?"
That's total bad game design. The 2d20 guys should be embarrassed.
Some other reasons why the 2d20 System is pure crap:
1. A focus on dice and mechanics--the DOOM Pool--rather than roleplaying. Players alter what they do based on the DOOM Pool level and not on the in-game factors that PCs perceive in the game. It's very meta.
2. The interaction of the DOOM Pool has no place in the Hyborian Age. There is no yin/yang relationship, like Star Wars' The Force, in Conan's universe.
3. And, what happens if I, as a PC, always maxes out the dice I throw, whether through Momentum or Buying Dice and Increasing the DOOM pool, or through one of the other methods? The DOOM Pool grows, and the GM uses those points to make the obstacles harder and the foes tougher. But, my character is super-human on every throw because I've chosen to throw the maximum amount of dice on a task for every throw.
2d20 is one of the worst game systems I've ever seen.
The King
Cosmic Mongoose
As I was referring to the D20, I implied the Conan D20 rules :wink:
I think the 2d20 was created as a cooperative game in mind. You fighter received the complication due to the thief because they are a band. It is like in some game where the error of the group's hacker trigger the alarm and everyone suffer from it. This is also the case in some games where a sorcerer fumbles his spells and there is a backfire in a specific radius.
In fact, it is exactly the same under another presentation. It is just that the GM must improvise the complication. The game adds thus a bit of narrativism.
The Doom pool isn't like the Ying and Yang, it is more like the more you count on luck, the more you risk to trigger bad luck at one time. You also forget to say is that the Fate points collected by a PC can be given to someone else of the group.
The d20 rules were very heavy-mechanics-wise as well. It is probable that the 2d20 is made for new generations of players or for those older gamers who are ready to break free for the old school system, even if it is still miles away from system like FATE, Apocalypse system or whatever. Sure, this is all less "realistic" and you might not feel the hard blows your fighter strikes at your foes any more, but the rules address another level of gaming.
What is great (and may be even greater with SF games using these rules) is that your weapon does a basic damage but you can trigger special effects (like impale or disarm or whatever).
The system is also much more rapid with 2 dices and "roll under" (skill + attribute) for everything, you immediately know if you score a success or not. I think you just have to accept an acclimation phase and it will require some work to create adventures with this new system.
(I didn't read the rules fully, but I am quite optimistic, may be it is also because I've read the Fate Rules (Mindjammer) in-between and find them aeons away from old school rules (but this system enables you to create everything the same way, from a PC to space vessels and to a whole galaxy)
I would put Gurps and Rolemaster in this category.Supplement Four said:
I think the 2d20 was created as a cooperative game in mind. You fighter received the complication due to the thief because they are a band. It is like in some game where the error of the group's hacker trigger the alarm and everyone suffer from it. This is also the case in some games where a sorcerer fumbles his spells and there is a backfire in a specific radius.
In fact, it is exactly the same under another presentation. It is just that the GM must improvise the complication. The game adds thus a bit of narrativism.
The Doom pool isn't like the Ying and Yang, it is more like the more you count on luck, the more you risk to trigger bad luck at one time. You also forget to say is that the Fate points collected by a PC can be given to someone else of the group.
The d20 rules were very heavy-mechanics-wise as well. It is probable that the 2d20 is made for new generations of players or for those older gamers who are ready to break free for the old school system, even if it is still miles away from system like FATE, Apocalypse system or whatever. Sure, this is all less "realistic" and you might not feel the hard blows your fighter strikes at your foes any more, but the rules address another level of gaming.
What is great (and may be even greater with SF games using these rules) is that your weapon does a basic damage but you can trigger special effects (like impale or disarm or whatever).
The system is also much more rapid with 2 dices and "roll under" (skill + attribute) for everything, you immediately know if you score a success or not. I think you just have to accept an acclimation phase and it will require some work to create adventures with this new system.
(I didn't read the rules fully, but I am quite optimistic, may be it is also because I've read the Fate Rules (Mindjammer) in-between and find them aeons away from old school rules (but this system enables you to create everything the same way, from a PC to space vessels and to a whole galaxy)
The King said:I really can't understand why you don't like the 2d20 system from Modiphius because it is really tailored to play heroes.
Otherwise, I did perform a sort of conversion of the d20 to the Mongoose RQII/Legend system, that is with many feats converted as extraordinary abilities. I sent the files to Supplement Four, so you can ask him what he thinks about it (but be warned, he is a fanatic of the d20 system
lol
As S4 is mentioning in his previous post, I do find a lot of wrong with the 2d20 and that was a good example.
Yes: and I agree, d20 has a lot of game rules, but there is the option to select only what you want in your game.
I also have spent near 14 years now with Mongoose Conan d20 and in is apart of me now, filling my poor brain with another set of rules to memorize and a set I not really enjoying is not worth the while.
Would love to see what you have done with you converted rules King. I PM you my E-mail, if you could send?
Cheers
For what its worth (and I know not much) I too am extremely disappointed with the Conan 2d20 game. Truthfully I have no one to blame but myself, I saw Conan + RPG + Robert E Howard and immediately jumped all over it. I mistakenly thought the 2d20 was going to be a spin on D&D 5E rules with advantage/disadvantage type stuff. Man what a surprise!
Now I am not knocking those that like it. By all means play on and have fun! But for me, I have never encountered a game system that gets more in the way of actually playing than 2d20. Just take a look at the G+ page, instead of being filled with community content, its question after question of how basic game mechanics like sorcery and how to hit someone works.
The rules are not intuitive and far too fiddly. A shame, because I do like the presentation and writing in the books. But those rules...yikes!
Now I am not knocking those that like it. By all means play on and have fun! But for me, I have never encountered a game system that gets more in the way of actually playing than 2d20. Just take a look at the G+ page, instead of being filled with community content, its question after question of how basic game mechanics like sorcery and how to hit someone works.
The rules are not intuitive and far too fiddly. A shame, because I do like the presentation and writing in the books. But those rules...yikes!
MarMax said:
Well, Max, hate to agree with you, but I think without trying to be insulting to others, that the best explanation of the 2d20 game I have seem and completely agree.
As you state, if people are enjoying it, I hope they keep enjoying it, the Hyborian Age and Conan Sagas are a joy and inspiration, so that was my only reason to assist thee kickstarter was that the Conan game flourishes still, no matter how. I will keep on playing 1d20 rules.
The only thing good for the kickstarter for me was getting the PDFs of the Mongoose Conan game (which I was not expecting) and I happy with that, but sad to emphasize, not the 2d20 ruleset.
The King said:I did perform a sort of conversion of the d20 to the Mongoose RQII/Legend system, that is with many feats converted as extraordinary abilities. I sent the files to Supplement Four, so you can ask him what he thinks about it (but be warned, he is a fanatic of the d20 system
Been reading your conversion King with the RQII/Legend rules. "Fantastic!!!"
An extreme lot of work and I in awe, much praise to you and what you have done!
Just purchased Legend rules for pennies on Drive/Thru, but they do reminder me of 3E RQ from the 80s, which I have, but might as well get the Legend rules, 75p for truth sake, a bit cheep, but still, can I complain for them selling it cheep, yes, but that another story!
I was using weapons from T&T 5E, which is my preferred edition, keeping a d20 rolls. Ageing from AD&D 1E, even some Bushido rules and just the favourite rules from various other games I have played.
But you work comes very close to what I wanted, so probably borrow some ideas also.
I would have to type a novel of how well I think you have presented it, cultures, spells, etc., it is a pity that those who control the Conan licence and the powers that be could get their hands on your work, I think the Conan community would seriously enjoy what you have done!
Keep the good work continuing...
