The Russian T-95

[Cavalier1645]

Hi came a across forum on the Russian t-95 and wanted to make a place to discuss on Evo forum



Hi hegemon wrote

I taught a friend of mine the basics of Modern Combat today, We both had two infantry squads and a tank, he a challenger2 and me a T95.

I must say the T95 may be a tad to powerfull, what with its 152mm cannon being able to kill the challenger 2 in one shot, seeing as it multihit and killshot. so that means a hit is a kill, and a kill gives 4 wounds, as the challenger is hit/4, inst-gib! add in to the equation that from the 152's d10+6, your hitting the challenger on a 2+, sure none of this takes terrain into account but still.

Anyone else tried this awesome tank yet?


Yes, it is poweful, but way too expensive. It becomes a fire magnet in my game. Died via hellfire missiles

 

[Cavalier1645]

I personality don't think the Russian Type 95 is all that un-balanced

Its deadly, but expensive. It cost more than most tanks.

The sad truth is in modern warfare tanks should utterly one-shot other tanks . It the nature of modern warfare. Modern tankers use Terrain and tactics to over come an enemy force. In BEVO a T-95 can be one-shoted by an T-72. That to me seems realistic. A t-72 can kill a M1a2 sept in the real world. the Sept has the advantage of range, it can kill the t-72 for many thousands yards before the T-72 can engage it. This doesn't mean a t-72 can't kill M1, it just its command must use terran and tactics to overcome the M1 advantage.

Still love the fact there are now Russian in the BEVO[/quote]

 

[Rabidchild]

The 152mm had Killshot in playtesting. It doesn't in the MC rulebook, due no doubt to all the playtesters' feedback. Thank heavens.

 

[tneva82]

A t-72 can kill a M1a2 sept in the real world.

Atleast Russian ones can. Iraq ones with their export models and sub-par ammunition didn't stand much of chance of that one. Even discounting total air superiority Americans had which made even attempt rather tricky...

Though modern tanks can be suprisingly resilient. Didn't Americans had to resort for calling air strike to destroy their disabled Abrams when second Abrams failed to knock it out? Tough buggers.

 

[Cavalier1645]

A t-72 can kill a M1a2 sept in the real world.

Atleast Russian ones can. Iraq ones with their export models and sub-par ammunition didn't stand much of chance of that one. Even discounting total air superiority Americans had which made even attempt rather tricky...

Though modern tanks can be suprisingly resilient. Didn't Americans had to resort for calling air strike to destroy their disabled Abrams when second Abrams failed to knock it out? Tough buggers.

Yes Modern tanks are tough, but killing a tank doesn't mean the the tank is complete destroyed. The US called in air stike on disable M1s to make sure nothing, i mean nothing fell in enemy hands.

 

[tneva82]

Yes Modern tanks are tough, but killing a tank doesn't mean the the tank is complete destroyed. The US called in air stike on disable M1s to make sure nothing, i mean nothing fell in enemy hands.

Well the article I read about it stated that they called in airstrike after several attempts with second Abram fire failed to even penetrate the armour of disabled Abrams. Doesn't sound like kill result against live tank to me

 

[Pietia]

Well the article I read about it stated that they called in airstrike after several attempts with second Abram fire failed to even penetrate the armour of disabled Abrams. Doesn't sound like kill result against live tank to me

The power of marketing...
(Note to self: don't buy tank gun ammo in the US)

 

[Hiromoon]

Doesn't say much about the soviet stuff though... honestly, if you're making an export model with downgraded armor protection in comparison to your domestically owned stuff.... you're cheating your customer...

 

[tneva82]

Doesn't say much about the soviet stuff though... honestly, if you're making an export model with downgraded armor protection in comparison to your domestically owned stuff.... you're cheating your customer...

Then again. Would the customers be willing to pay more $$$ for full grade items? How much Iraq's could afford to pay anyway and maybe they thought quantity wins over quality?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Doesn't say much about the soviet stuff though... honestly, if you're making an export model with downgraded armor protection in comparison to your domestically owned stuff.... you're cheating your customer...

You've seen the downgraded "export" G36, right? You never sell your best stuff to other countries, you keep it for yourself. Might need it one day, eh?

 

[Pietia]

Doesn't say much about the soviet stuff though... honestly, if you're making an export model with downgraded armor protection in comparison to your domestically owned stuff.... you're cheating your customer...

A bit like the export variants of Challenger and Abrams ;-)

 

[Hiromoon]

bit like the export variants of Challenger and Abrams

Actually, our exported Abrams, if I remember correctly, actually have full armor, but lesser versions of the targeting systems.

- Aussie M1s are diesel powered... so that's another difference...

Then again. Would the customers be willing to pay more $$$ for full grade items? How much Iraq's could afford to pay anyway and maybe they thought quantity wins over quality?

Actually, the Russians (like the US at the time) would sell package deals. Buy enough tanks for 'x', and they'll train you in maintenance, operation of the vehicles, and tactics. The cold war was great for deals... Buy three of these, we'll throw in a transport vehicle, and so on...

You've seen the downgraded "export" G36, right? You never sell your best stuff to other countries, you keep it for yourself. Might need it one day, eh?

The sights, right?
- The Bundeswehr version of the G36 has a dual 3.5X magnification optical sight and an electronic red-dot reflex sight.
- The export version has only a 1.5X optic with backup front blade and rear notch in the detachable carrying handle.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

That is the only difference I'm aware of, yes. Still a major downgrade, though. Any army buying G36s would do well to demand the domestic version or shop elsewhere. I believe Steyr sell the proper spec AUG to anyone that wants it... 8)

 

[Hiromoon]

Actually, we tried getting a firearm from H&K (till people complained) that would have used the guts of the G36 in a modular body.

Course, you're assuming that they won't get their gunsmith to correct the issue.

Same with the M1's in foreign service.. unless they buy the upgrade package... We'll upgrade 'em for them if they buy that...

 

[tneva82]

Actually, the Russians (like the US at the time) would sell package deals. Buy enough tanks for 'x', and they'll train you in maintenance, operation of the vehicles, and tactics. The cold war was great for deals... Buy three of these, we'll throw in a transport vehicle, and so on...

Yes but would you have got same amount of state of the art T-72's as they got these export models? I don't know about you but if I were Soviet Union fellow deciding about these I would ask for bigger price tag for them than the worser ones.

And as has been pointed out other export items also lose on quality. Why shouldn't Russian(or then soviet union) kit do but instead sell out best versions(and aparantly be supposed to sell at same price as older ones as well!)? So why not full sights for export M1's at same price then?

 

[Mr Evil]

thing to keep in mind is destroying a tank and knocking one out are very different.... i knocked out US tank doesnt count as destroyed while a knocked out enemy tank counts as destroyed for US statistics, M1s arnt that hard to knock out, just like the T72 just a T72 knock out is called destroyed if that makes any sence...... basicly its all propaganda,, many destroyed T72,s have since been repaired and been back in action for mine clearance duties acording to an artical i read a few months back.

but yes the ability to kill an enemy tank in one shot is right on the money, kill being a knock out or destroyed, makes no difference as both are as unusable as the other.

as for exsprot models, they never have all the bells and wissles, after all todays allie is tommorrows enemy.....

 

[Hiromoon]

I'd have to look into the Abrams price per unit for, say, Egypt (which got a production license) and the US, with a comparison on variables... Buuuut... As Lord David the Denied said, you keep your best stuff for yourself. We didn't skimp on armor, just gave you 1st generation sights while we get 2nd or even 3rd generation. The suggestion is, though, that the Russians didn't give you full armor (doubtful... sure, you didn't get the reactive armor at the price for the tank, but honestly, why retool your production line just to screw over the customer?) and poor ammunition...

 

[Hiromoon]

thing to keep in mind is destroying a tank and knocking one out are very different.... i knocked out US tank doesnt count as destroyed while a knocked out enemy tank counts as destroyed for US statistics, M1s arnt that hard to knock out, just like the T72 just a T72 knock out is called destroyed if that makes any sence...... basicly its all propaganda,, many destroyed T72,s have since been repaired and been back in action for mine clearance duties acording to an artical i read a few months back.

The problem with that is, Mr Evil, when one knocks out a T-72, the ammunition of said T-72 goes up, popping the turret up and off. Also, any tank abandoned in the field tended to get destroyed (willy pete in the compartment, thermite and all that).

Though, also as another point, even an destroyed M1 can be repaired (turret can be reused, body parts reused, depending on state...). We have a boneyard where all M1s go for either permenant retirement or refit.

 

[Mr Evil]

i beleive the russians had factoriies that just produced spare parts and exsport tanks where assembed close by, possably near kursk but im going by info we worked on like 15+ year ago.. but in cold war times when alot of the exsports where done, intel had it that there where many factories producing the parts but the southern factoried produced the spares, did the repaires and produced the exsport stuff, russia worked on the theory that if you destroyed all the factories in one region you could switch complete production to a new one after lessons learnt in WW2... southern russia produced the lower grade stuff as it felt those borders where at most risk.

funny enough i heard its now possable to buy deactivated russian T72s and other old russian tanks direct from russia now brand spanking new, this is obvously aimed at collectors not waring nations, but shows how easy it is to rejig a factory to leave bits out.

i miss my travant lol.. shame it couldnt be used in the uk due to emiision regulations.

 

[Mr Evil]

thing to keep in mind is destroying a tank and knocking one out are very different.... i knocked out US tank doesnt count as destroyed while a knocked out enemy tank counts as destroyed for US statistics, M1s arnt that hard to knock out, just like the T72 just a T72 knock out is called destroyed if that makes any sence...... basicly its all propaganda,, many destroyed T72,s have since been repaired and been back in action for mine clearance duties acording to an artical i read a few months back.

The problem with that is, Mr Evil, when one knocks out a T-72, the ammunition of said T-72 goes up, popping the turret up and off. Also, any tank abandoned in the field tended to get destroyed (willy pete in the compartment, thermite and all that).

Though, also as another point, even an destroyed M1 can be repaired (turret can be reused, body parts reused, depending on state...). We have a boneyard where all M1s go for either permenant retirement or refit.

true but the mazority of T72s in the first gulf war were found to not carry any ammo at all... but your also find not a single iraq tank has ever been knocked out they all got destroyed on contact... evan abandoned tanks with engines still running where marked down as destroyed.. what often happenes is a tank is knocked out and if an available airstike is possable its then destroyed to prevent enemy reclaiming spare parts. i think game wais it makes zero difference, and thats the importnt bit, a destroyed tanks or a knocked out tanks in BFEVO (wich i beleive this forum is concerned with) have exactly the same effect game wise, ie both cant do anything.. ie killed..

and thats the import part in this game a knock out or destroyed has exactly the same effect in game and on battle field ie the elimination of the vehicle from the combat enviroment for the achievment of objective, so killing a tank in a single shot is not overpowerful, a good comander will try to eliminate all enemy armour as fast as possable to give them the armour advantage, a good way of doing this is to engage from the air, then once the major risks have gone, roll out your tanks from cover, unlike real world in this game the enemy will be trying to do the same as well...

so far in modern times no two forces have both had equal air power, but in this game we do have the ability.