The Future of BF Evo - and a Poll. . .
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
JayRaider said:
Well, this all depends on how you look at things. I'll go through your points in turn.
First off, in a very real sense, it is never too late. If there is a good game out, there, people will play it. Put another way, if we re-released BF Evo in five years time (just an example, mind!) with all the bells and whistles, it would stand on its own merit at the time.
By the same token, if we succeed in our ultimate goal of low-cost, high-quality and varied pre-paints, they will gain people's attention.
Mongoose has not lost a fortune - if we had proceeded, unchecked, with waves 4, 5 and 6 then, maybe, we would have. But we have enough sense to plug holes when they appear (which is why we are still here when so many other companies that started at the same time are not).
The diehards have not lost a fortune - their miniatures and games are just as valid today as they were yesterday (they did not suddenly break overnight). Added to that, we have no intention of leaving people high and dry - we never have. If players would lose their inhibitions about 'officialdom' (and I understand why the reluctance is there), then there is already more material available than many other games support. However, aside from that, BF Evo is too good a game for us to just drop, for a variety of reasons.
Now, some might decide they have 'had enough'. That is fine, we live in a wargaming democracy. It is now up to us to convince you back in the future, and produce an enduring game that is attractive to you. To this end, we will be dedicating ourselves.
A final thought: Not so long ago, people said the same things about Starship Troopers. Those players are now due to go through a rennaissance. There is no reason why the same cannot happen with BF Evo. None at all.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
msprange said:
So a list of second comings to watch for:
1) SST (On it's way)
2) BF: Evo
3) The great prophet Zarquon :lol:
LEt's just hope BF:Evo is a little quicker coming than Zarquon eh
LBH
Well, take a look at Planet Mongoose, and you'll get a gander of what is planned for this year. . .
I've been a serious gamer for 20 years now, and I still own some pretty old stuff that I have not been playing in a while. So, please don't change the scale: when BFEvo eventually come back, my PLA army will still be here, waiting for reinforcements and opponents!msprange said:
msprange said:
The issue for me is that I was drawn to the game because of the prepaints. Now that Mongoose has dropped that aspect, I am no longer interested in the product. I still have what I bought throughout the release (and it is a lot), but I am stuck with only the 3 waves you decided to release. So in a sense, people like me have lost a fortune.
mikeg99 said:
Sorry, my point was not clear - high quality, low cost and varied pre-paints are still very much the goal for us.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
JayRaider said:
which are always out of order! What is it with Irish ATMs? :x
Sgt. Scream
Mongoose
Read PLANET MONGOOSE. Seriously. :wink:
Stonehorse
Mongoose
Just read the planet Mongoose article.
I really hope there is some truth in there. I know my last entry in this thread was deleted, and those who read it might think I take a perverse enjoyment out of Mongooses failures. That is simply not true.
I love the game systems that you guys produce. The game mechanics are simple, yet a well over due fresh breeze in the TTG market. I honestly hope that the bad name Mongoose has gained can be turned around.
I view Mongoose as Role-playing company first and foremost, who have ventured into the TTG market a few times, and have to date only one game that has continued to be well received and supported. ACTA.
I personally think that for Mongoose to do well in all their TTG systems they need to address the 'teething problems' they have. These I think are as follows:
1. Quality Control.
Some of the models that have been produced I'm afraid are of the miniature quality that was acceptable during the 90's. If you are unsure if a model will be well accepted in the market. Look at what other TTG companies are producing and use their level of quality as a way of judging. They are the competition in the market.
2. Support.
After a big announcement is made the support tends to drop off for the game system in question. Namely SST, what would be ideal is to make the announcement and still provide support for the system and ensuring that the support given will not be invalidated when the big announcement comes to light.
These 2 things are simple, within the abilities of Mongoose, and I strongly believe will do Mongoose the world of good.
I really hope there is some truth in there. I know my last entry in this thread was deleted, and those who read it might think I take a perverse enjoyment out of Mongooses failures. That is simply not true.
I love the game systems that you guys produce. The game mechanics are simple, yet a well over due fresh breeze in the TTG market. I honestly hope that the bad name Mongoose has gained can be turned around.
I view Mongoose as Role-playing company first and foremost, who have ventured into the TTG market a few times, and have to date only one game that has continued to be well received and supported. ACTA.
I personally think that for Mongoose to do well in all their TTG systems they need to address the 'teething problems' they have. These I think are as follows:
1. Quality Control.
Some of the models that have been produced I'm afraid are of the miniature quality that was acceptable during the 90's. If you are unsure if a model will be well accepted in the market. Look at what other TTG companies are producing and use their level of quality as a way of judging. They are the competition in the market.
2. Support.
After a big announcement is made the support tends to drop off for the game system in question. Namely SST, what would be ideal is to make the announcement and still provide support for the system and ensuring that the support given will not be invalidated when the big announcement comes to light.
These 2 things are simple, within the abilities of Mongoose, and I strongly believe will do Mongoose the world of good.
dsfrankevo
Mongoose
JayRaider said:
Hiromoon said:
Sure we could - but that won't change the fact that he's RIGHT :!: :!: :!: :!:
I'm all for restarting production of pre-painted minis - I'll do my part with my wallet
- I don't care if you put out the proposed Waves or come up with new units
Sooner is better than later
& I don't think there is enough support for unpainted minis to be a viable product line
I do think it will have to take a commitment of more than a wave or 2 of new releases to convince the cynics out there that the game is really back
Actually, it'd help if he were right. But you're already set in your opinion so all I can do is taunt you and that's about it.
Edit
To clarify, it's only dead if we accept that it's dead. I've put too much work into it to let it pass, so frankly, as far as I'm concerned, it's still going. I'm like that Marines and their stubborn doggedness with the V-22 Osprey. And I'm not the only one who's done hard work in supporting this stuff. Look at Sgt.Scream and Pietia. Now, while I know what we've done won't be enough to get Mongoose to bring back the miniatures line immediately, we can keep the Evolution rules on people's minds (apparently, even the detractors love the rules, so that's something to build upon). Get your helmet back on and help us, Frank.
Edit
To clarify, it's only dead if we accept that it's dead. I've put too much work into it to let it pass, so frankly, as far as I'm concerned, it's still going. I'm like that Marines and their stubborn doggedness with the V-22 Osprey. And I'm not the only one who's done hard work in supporting this stuff. Look at Sgt.Scream and Pietia. Now, while I know what we've done won't be enough to get Mongoose to bring back the miniatures line immediately, we can keep the Evolution rules on people's minds (apparently, even the detractors love the rules, so that's something to build upon). Get your helmet back on and help us, Frank.
dsfrankevo
Mongoose
Hiromoon said:
A reread of my post may be in order.....you were too quick on the draw and got to it before I edited it
Hiromoon said:
You know those very words have been typed by me repeatedly on Evo Command
We all know I'm a fan of the game if not in love with the manufacturer -
despite my cynical nature and my vocally posted disappointments -
I really really hope the BF Evo ship can be righted and sail smoothly into the waters of both financial and fan based success
I'm afraid to admit it but - Matt's new post on Planet Mongoose gives me fresh hope
I know I've teased alot of the more hopeful of us that they are Charlie Brown & Mongoose is Lucy with the football but....
..... darned if I'm not tempted to trust 'em and line up behind the ball
Cautiously optimistic and waiting for more PRE-PAINTED minis & the WWII rules (for my already painted stuff)
I may even change my Icon and sig block to pics w/ Mongoose minis :shock:
It does bum me out that there have only been 55 votes in the pole - doesn't speak well of the size of the fan base at this point
dsfrankevo
Mongoose
No sweat Ben,
Last time I drove one of those I was a brand 2LT and they'd only let me go about 5mph .... GRRrrr
In my M577 - though I put the pedal to the metal - not that it is anything like the same
See you on EvoCommand.com
Dave S. Frank
Last time I drove one of those I was a brand 2LT and they'd only let me go about 5mph .... GRRrrr
In my M577 - though I put the pedal to the metal - not that it is anything like the same
See you on EvoCommand.com
Dave S. Frank
msprange said:
Matt,
If you can stand a little more polite criticism…
I think this attitude that I have seen expressed by you whenever a line begins to falter is something that you seriously misunderstand. There will always be the guys who are willing to accept that their minis are ‘still valid’ but by far, as evidenced by people on this board and what I presume is a mass exodus of people/customers previously interested in the game, the majority do not accept this.
You are attempting to compete with the likes of GW for my time, money and interest and, whatever other differences exist, you cannot win me over with incomplete lines. I don’t want incomplete lines with ‘still valid’ minis. I want complete lines that allow interesting variation in gameplay. But it’s more than that. You are now appearing to be in the habit of not completing your lines.
I think this is an attitude that you should spend time rethinking.
Cheers,
Eisho
Hiromoon said:
:?:
I mean the majority don't accept the explanation that their figures - as part of an incomplete product line - are still valid. Matt has long argued, and the same is true in this case, that the minis themselves are still minis. Still what you paid for. That's fair enough and can't be disputed, but my point, which I also made in my original post on this topic, is that I do not feel this is enough; in this case it doesn't represent true value for money.
Put another way: How many people, now knowing the mini product line will be discontinued, will still go out and buy whatever stock they can? Some will, sure, but I think a majority of people won't. The reason is not because the minis are suddenly any less than they were a few months ago, but because I believe most wargamers want a complete product line.
Or another way: Knowing that only the first three waves would ever be released, how many of those initial customers would still have bought into BFE in the first place? Again, much fewer I suspect. Possibly almost none.
After Mighty Armies crashed and burned, but before it was sold off, how many boxes did Mongoose sell?
Sorry, but Matt's argument is in my opinion very weak. Gamers are not just buying the minis. They are buying the promise that the product line will be completed and others will have the opportunity to buy the same minis and thus generate a vibe and more opponents.
Cheers,
Eisho
Sgt. Scream
Mongoose
Eisho has a good point here. I feel the same like he does about the discontinue of the line
