The FFW

[Bense]

To me seems to be taking over the release schedule

Did you see how many books were produced for the Deepnight Endeavor campaign, all of them useless if you didn't want to run that particular campaign?
FFW can be used just as well as a backdrop instead of a campaign. It just adds some verisimilitude. "While you guys were off having this adventure, a war broke out over there."

 

[Vormaerin]

The difference is that the deepnight revelation and the Pirates of Drinax books actually help you run those stories.

This is not currently true of the releases for the 5FW in my opinion. "There's a war going on over there off screen" is ALL they are currently good for.

 

[Grognardia]

The difference is that the deepnight revelation and the Pirates of Drinax books actually help you run those stories.

This is not currently true of the releases for the 5FW in my opinion. "There's a war going on over there off screen" is ALL they are currently good for.

Yep, totally agree. And your group has to be in a specific sector and at a specific timeline to even interact with anything.

 

[Endie]

Yep, totally agree. And your group has to be in a specific sector and at a specific timeline to even interact with anything.

And in some cases they also have to be Zhodani, or members of the armed forces (or specifically *not*), or completely fresh characters in one case.

 

[Bense]

The difference is that the deepnight revelation and the Pirates of Drinax books actually help you run those stories.

This is not currently true of the releases for the 5FW in my opinion. "There's a war going on over there off screen" is ALL they are currently good for.

That's mostly what the original 5FW during Classic Traveller and even the Rebellion did too. It was background.

 

[Vormaerin]

Yeah, which is why is was pretty widely disliked.

 

[tytalan]

The difference is that the deepnight revelation and the Pirates of Drinax books actually help you run those stories.

This is not currently true of the releases for the 5FW in my opinion. "There's a war going on over there off screen" is ALL they are currently good for.

Again both Deepnight Revelation and Pirates of Drinax are Campaigns FFW is not it’s a setting. You’re literally complaining the everything produced and written for say core sector don’t fit together into a nice coherent narrative. Mongoose literally does not classify FFW as a Campaign check the description on the FFW page of the web site “ Explore the grand campaign Setting of The Fifth Frontier War, and witness key events unfold across several new releases in this multi-year story arc.” While there is an overall story arc it is not a single campaign it’s a setting that tells the story of the FFW which will have various elements and interacts with a variety of different characters. You are literally complaining that an Orange is not an Apple.

 

[Vormaerin]

Even if it was a "Setting book" it is bad at that too.

Do I get a region of space to play in with details about worlds and such? No. That's in a completely different, non 5FW book. Do I get rules or advice on adapting that other book to the specifics of this particular paradigm? No.

Do I get a new way to play or a area that is optimized for a type of game play that isn't normally feasible? No. Because it doesn't change anything about the Spinward Marches. By your own admission, it doesn't help you run military games or help with running your non military games in a warzone.

This book says "hey, imagine a war. Here's some arrows on maps." It does not do anything for gameplay, either as a campaign or as a "Setting". It was fun to read, but it is not remotely useful for gameplay.

I am complaining that this series is, once again, totally unhelpful for actual play. I lived through GDW's 5FW and their Rebellion and this is more of the same disregard for use that those books had. Maybe the books coming will redeem it, the way Hard Times almost did with the Rebellion. We'll see.

I am not complaining that an Orange isn't an apple. I'm complaining that it is neither an orange OR an apple, it's a Still Life.

 

[tytalan]

Even if it was a "Setting book" it is bad at that too.

Do I get a region of space to play in with details about worlds and such? No. That's in a completely different, non 5FW book. Do I get rules or advice on adapting that other book to the specifics of this particular paradigm? No.

Do I get a new way to play or a area that is optimized for a type of game play that isn't normally feasible? No. Because it doesn't change anything about the Spinward Marches. By your own admission, it doesn't help you run military games or help with running your non military games in a warzone.

This book says "hey, imagine a war. Here's some arrows on maps." It does not do anything for gameplay, either as a campaign or as a "Setting". It was fun to read, but it is not remotely useful for gameplay.

I am complaining that this series is, once again, totally unhelpful for actual play. I lived through GDW's 5FW and their Rebellion and this is more of the same disregard for use that those books had. Maybe the books coming will redeem it, the way Hard Times almost did with the Rebellion. We'll see.

I am not complaining that an Orange isn't an apple. I'm complaining that it is neither an orange OR an apple, it's a Still Life.

There’s a difference between different types of setting books this one is an event setting book. Your complaining that the war is the back drop well tough. A group of battle scenarios is not what most Role Players want, Traveller is not a war game and the majority of players do not want it to be. The rebellion was great it gave creative GMs a background to play in that was dynamic and interesting because that was the setting. Event settings a quite common in RPGs shoot the whole Trinity line is a series of event style settings.

FFW is very much a setting and to use your own words Behind the Claw for example does not have any “
Do I get rules or advice on adapting that other book to the specifics of this particular paradigm? No.
Do I get a new way to play or a area that is optimized for a type of game play that isn't normally feasible? No. Because it doesn't change anything about the Spinward Marches.” So according to you Behind the Claw is not a setting book either. You see rules for these things in Campaigns not setting books.

If you want to play war games in Traveller find yourself a copy of the old FFW board game and have at it. The truth of the matter is you wanted one thing a huge campaign where the players determine the course of everything but instead you got a setting, some adventures and smaller campaigns set in this setting that let your players be a part of the setting and gives background for a creative GM to use. You wanted an Orange but you got Apples which was what you were told you were getting and now you’re complaining.

 

[nats]

To be fair Mongoose have demarcated the FFW setting books with a clearly different title on the book covers.

The main issue with the setting is there is no end game in sight. With the books being released every few years that is not likely to change any time soon. This is a product that is difficult to use in an actual game. Only when the line has finished can referees really use it. You can't create a FFW game that has potentially no end in sight for several years, that's just nonsense and would not be appreciated by players. The referee must be fully in control of their game. In this FFW setting Mongoose are in control.

But also its not the sort of thing that will bring much to a game anyway. So an interstellar war is going on somewhere. Why and how would that affect the Travellers? It's only going to seen in the news and maybe have an affect on some prices. Just like the affects the Ukrainian War has on present day America - increased fuel and energy prices, that's about it. Unless they are in the navy or situated near the border somewhere.

 

[tytalan]

To be fair Mongoose have demarcated the FFW setting books with a clearly different title on the book covers.

The main issue with the setting is there is no end game in sight. With the books being released every few years that is not likely to change any time soon. This is a product that is difficult to use in an actual game. Only when the line has finished can referees really use it. You can't create a FFW game that has potentially no end in sight for several years, that's just nonsense and would not be appreciated by players. The referee must be fully in control of their game. In this FFW setting Mongoose are in control.

But also its not the sort of thing that will bring much to a game anyway. So an interstellar war is going on somewhere. Why and how would that affect the Travellers? It's only going to seen in the news and maybe have an affect on some prices. Just like the affects the Ukrainian War has on present day America - increased fuel and energy prices, that's about it. Unless they are in the navy or situated near the border somewhere.

I don’t know about no end in sight with “The Turning Tide: A wider look at the Fifth Frontier War before we dive into its final stages. With this book you will be able to consider the actions your Travellers and other characters have taken in past adventures, and determine how they have affected the wider course of the war. Have your Travellers altered the outcome of the Fifth Frontier War, and are they on a path that might greatly affect the balance of power in the Spinward Marches?” Due out in September and mongoose saying that FFW will end next year with an end of the war book(that doesn’t mean we will not get another 4 or 5 books before the end of war book) (possibly with an updated Spinward Marches map).

I suspect that either next year or the year after we will start seeing adventures in Denab as Norris starts cleaning up that sector (in CT and MT he did this under imperial warrant because of the actions durning FFW by the Dukes in Denab). Though this might just be done as part of an after FFW report.

Either way I would love to see the Rebellion done this way because I think they’ve done an excellent job with FFW so far.

 

[Sigtrygg]

We will not see that. Mongoose has said they will not advance the timeline.

Every setting starts in 1105, in the case of FFW it leads up to the start in 1107.

For Mongoose to plot a course for after the war means they have to have a canonical ending, which they have said they will not have.

Besides, Naalir takes over the Imperium so it is all moot.

Or the supermen from the Ancients trilogy take over the Imperium so it is all moot.

Or the moot takes over the Imperium...

 

[Vormaerin]

FFW is very much a setting and to use your own words Behind the Claw for example does not have any “
Do I get rules or advice on adapting that other book to the specifics of this particular paradigm? No.
Do I get a new way to play or a area that is optimized for a type of game play that isn't normally feasible? No. Because it doesn't change anything about the Spinward Marches.” So according to you Behind the Claw is not a setting book either. You see rules for these things in Campaigns not setting books.

If you want to play war games in Traveller find yourself a copy of the old FFW board game and have at it. The truth of the matter is you wanted one thing a huge campaign where the players determine the course of everything but instead you got a setting, some adventures and smaller campaigns set in this setting that let your players be a part of the setting and gives background for a creative GM to use. You wanted an Orange but you got Apples which was what you were told you were getting and now you’re complaining.

As usual, you resort to inventing arguments that no one has made.

Regarding Beyond the Claw, it fulfills the first category of setting book I listed:

Do I get a region of space to play in with details about worlds and such?

As for the rest, no, actually I don't want a big giant campaign where the players control things. That IS better than what we have, but not what I would like to see. I wanted a product that makes having a big war going on in the background mean something and gives the GMs tools to use the war in play.

If you've found a way to use it, great. But pretty much everyone else is like "fun to read, lives on my shelf". That's not an ideal game product.