The FFW
- Thread starter Brian
- Start date
The individual products are quite good. It is not currently usable because too many pieces are hidden from the GM. Whether that changes when the rest of the material is released remains to be seen.
Edit: It could be a sunk cost fallacy, but I do not agree that they just end it. That would leave the existing material in a limbo of limited usefulness. Hopefully, with the later products we can actually see the big picture (I'm looking at you, Turning Points!). But then, I am happy with the individual books just not with the current package.
Edit: It could be a sunk cost fallacy, but I do not agree that they just end it. That would leave the existing material in a limbo of limited usefulness. Hopefully, with the later products we can actually see the big picture (I'm looking at you, Turning Points!). But then, I am happy with the individual books just not with the current package.
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Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
The whole idea of not giving any driving goals for the GM to latch onto is surprisingly shortsighted.
OriginalCaruso
Cosmic Mongoose
If FFW is the way to support Mongoose financially then so be it.
Limpin Legin
Emperor Mongoose
I haven't bought FFW products yet. From what I see I like the change of focus and the scale of themes, from book to book.
From focusing on hapless Travellers in Opening Moves to studying the War Fleets of the two main sides in WFOTFFW.
I could start with Opening Moves or the ICS Papers. I haven't bought into FFW because I don't know where I am going with it once it has been unleashed in my game. I want the 1-2-1 situation with a small party of Travellers and I also want to know about the bigger meta-game aspect, too.
From focusing on hapless Travellers in Opening Moves to studying the War Fleets of the two main sides in WFOTFFW.
I could start with Opening Moves or the ICS Papers. I haven't bought into FFW because I don't know where I am going with it once it has been unleashed in my game. I want the 1-2-1 situation with a small party of Travellers and I also want to know about the bigger meta-game aspect, too.
I think the ideal of FFW was not an overall campaign as much as it’s a setting and the adventures are various things that happens independently of each other. Think of it this you have a setting, a time period in this case, and you have adventures that happen in that setting in many ways it’s not much different than say the various Spinward Marches Adventures. Anyway I think looking at FFW as a campaign is wrong you should instead think of it as a setting
OriginalCaruso
Cosmic Mongoose
I think this is a good perspective.
However, I would prefer something that is not FFW but more small scale adventure focussed.
If it's supposed to be used as a setting, it should have stuff for actually using it in a player facing way. Who needs big battleships if you aren't playing a Naval campaign? They are cool, but they don't make a big impact on a typical game. Do the players really care if they are running away from a Kokirrak or from a Uashhki? Probably not.
They need a Hard Times sourcebook. This is the same exact problem that the Rebellion era had for GDW. Lots and lots of high level stuff that the GM had no insight into and didn't involve the players, but nothing for "How would this look in your campaign and what would that look like to your players?"
What are the ripple effects of such a war on trade? On how various planetary populations behave? Material that shows how this is different than just playing in the Spinward Marches without it.
Yes, the adventures are good, which is an improvement over the GDW Rebellion. But they are mutually incompatible, unlike the Marches or Reach Adventures. Unless your play group is keen to do half a dozen or more different parties each doing a one shot. If I was still running in a gaming club setting, that might even be interesting. But I don't think it is a common way to play Traveller.
They need a Hard Times sourcebook. This is the same exact problem that the Rebellion era had for GDW. Lots and lots of high level stuff that the GM had no insight into and didn't involve the players, but nothing for "How would this look in your campaign and what would that look like to your players?"
What are the ripple effects of such a war on trade? On how various planetary populations behave? Material that shows how this is different than just playing in the Spinward Marches without it.
Yes, the adventures are good, which is an improvement over the GDW Rebellion. But they are mutually incompatible, unlike the Marches or Reach Adventures. Unless your play group is keen to do half a dozen or more different parties each doing a one shot. If I was still running in a gaming club setting, that might even be interesting. But I don't think it is a common way to play Traveller.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
To be fair, with almost every standard warship and player ship, they are doing a lot less running away and a lot more going in the opposite direction relatively slowly with respect to the Naval vessel in the hopes of spinning up the jump drive before they are overtaken... or better still, within weapons range.
I think the key here is the setting is more keyed to naval and merc campaigns something that is greatly missing. I will agree that FFW needs a GM guide but those are often one of the last books done. Plus it could be because Mongoose said that they wanted to keep GM agency.
Possibly. Turning Points may be that. It might be that in a year we'll have something that makes this more than cool fluff.
But I don't see how what is produced is tied to either Naval or Merc campaigns. None of the existing adventures are that. Praetoria Command may be that, but it specifically points out that it is small ships, so it's not clear.
They absolutely should have produced a Naval Campaign Guide tie in for the 5FW. And likewise for their Mercenary rules. This is clearly the big glowing opportunity for those things, but none of the adventures seem to be designed for either situation.
It might be that they will be coming later. But both of those and a Hard Times book would be more useful than anything they have released so far.
War Fleets, ICS Papers, Armies, etc were fun to read (except the TL 12 Army bit
). I don't regret buying them. But they are just loregasms. They don't give me any tools or advice or structures for actual play that I didn't already have. I can run an interstellar war in Traveller just as well now as I could before I bought them.
But I don't see how what is produced is tied to either Naval or Merc campaigns. None of the existing adventures are that. Praetoria Command may be that, but it specifically points out that it is small ships, so it's not clear.
They absolutely should have produced a Naval Campaign Guide tie in for the 5FW. And likewise for their Mercenary rules. This is clearly the big glowing opportunity for those things, but none of the adventures seem to be designed for either situation.
It might be that they will be coming later. But both of those and a Hard Times book would be more useful than anything they have released so far.
War Fleets, ICS Papers, Armies, etc were fun to read (except the TL 12 Army bit
). I don't regret buying them. But they are just loregasms. They don't give me any tools or advice or structures for actual play that I didn't already have. I can run an interstellar war in Traveller just as well now as I could before I bought them.Hardtimes really does not fit this at all. Hardtimes was about the effect of all out destruction which this is not the case. There’s no whole sale destruction FFW is not about that. There is no major planetary bombardment or other infrastructure. FFW was more about troops and navies even the few planetary strikes were precisely executed minimizing collateral damage. FFW just doesn’t have the kind of infrastructure damage that produced Hardtimes all parties wanted to capture the target worlds not salt the ground so they get nothing.
FFW and the Rebellion were very different types of wars.
For Setting books being primarily lore is the norm. Again you’re really trying to treat FFW as a campaign which it is not it’s a setting and it’s designed to give you details of an event FFW. It’s not here how you do a war in Traveller it’s this is the FFW and here are the details about it plus some adventures that will let you give your players a feel that they are part of it and give you ideals for your own campaign set durning FFW.War Fleets, ICS Papers, Armies, etc were fun to read (except the TL 12 Army bit
Honestly mongoose has done a far better job with FFW than anything previously and followed through with exactly what they said they were going to do.
Considering that the bar was under the floor on previous Traveller attempts at wars, that's not particularly saying much.
You are asserting it is a setting. At no point did anyone from Mongoose suggest such a thing.
Mongoose is saying that it is a situation that has no pre-defined resolution. And that the actions of our characters are supposed to determine what happens. This suggests to me that they think it is some sort of campaign. A sandbox one like Pirates, not a Adventure Path like the Ancients.
It is of no help to me in running my own campaign in the 5FW, because it provides nothing except some arrows on maps for part of the war. It does not tell me what the Zhodani goals are, although there clearly is one. We just aren't allowed to know what that is (yet). It does not provide any guidance on how the war affects the region. Sure, the area isn't blown up exactly like Hard Times. But the point is that Hard Times gives GMs tools and advice on running the changes to the published version of the regions and how that would look to typical players. It's not going to be as bad as Hard Times, but it is not going to be nothing. Nor does it discuss how to use it to run a mercenary or naval campaign.
It has some adventures. But none of them actually rely on anything in the "setting material". Though most of them do say "This will affect how the war goes!" without actually explaining how that's supposed to happen. Again, supposedly Turning Points will do that. I am very curious to see how that is supposed to work, because unless you specifically run it as a campaign of disparate groups doing various things, I don't see how there's any sort of cumulative effect going on. There's still six adventures waiting to be published, but so far, you'd be struggling to get more than two of them into the same group of characters. Aka the typical sort of campaign.
This isn't any new opinion on my part. I said during discussions when they first started talking about the 5FW (and before that when it was just hypothetical) that this is exactly what I did not want to see: A lot of high level stuff with no meaningful player facing support. Mongoose said that's not what they are doing. So far, though, it is. In a year, it might be a different situation.
But the first book in this line came out in March 2024 IIRC. So that's 2 years into the line and it's not yet usable. I'm not quite old enough that I have to seriously wonder if I'll be around in a year to see the finished package, but three years is a pretty long time to go publishing a game product line without letting the GMs in on what is actually happening.
You are asserting it is a setting. At no point did anyone from Mongoose suggest such a thing.
Mongoose is saying that it is a situation that has no pre-defined resolution. And that the actions of our characters are supposed to determine what happens. This suggests to me that they think it is some sort of campaign. A sandbox one like Pirates, not a Adventure Path like the Ancients.
It is of no help to me in running my own campaign in the 5FW, because it provides nothing except some arrows on maps for part of the war. It does not tell me what the Zhodani goals are, although there clearly is one. We just aren't allowed to know what that is (yet). It does not provide any guidance on how the war affects the region. Sure, the area isn't blown up exactly like Hard Times. But the point is that Hard Times gives GMs tools and advice on running the changes to the published version of the regions and how that would look to typical players. It's not going to be as bad as Hard Times, but it is not going to be nothing. Nor does it discuss how to use it to run a mercenary or naval campaign.
It has some adventures. But none of them actually rely on anything in the "setting material". Though most of them do say "This will affect how the war goes!" without actually explaining how that's supposed to happen. Again, supposedly Turning Points will do that. I am very curious to see how that is supposed to work, because unless you specifically run it as a campaign of disparate groups doing various things, I don't see how there's any sort of cumulative effect going on. There's still six adventures waiting to be published, but so far, you'd be struggling to get more than two of them into the same group of characters. Aka the typical sort of campaign.
This isn't any new opinion on my part. I said during discussions when they first started talking about the 5FW (and before that when it was just hypothetical) that this is exactly what I did not want to see: A lot of high level stuff with no meaningful player facing support. Mongoose said that's not what they are doing. So far, though, it is. In a year, it might be a different situation.
But the first book in this line came out in March 2024 IIRC. So that's 2 years into the line and it's not yet usable. I'm not quite old enough that I have to seriously wonder if I'll be around in a year to see the finished package, but three years is a pretty long time to go publishing a game product line without letting the GMs in on what is actually happening.
