Dag'Nabbit
Mongoose
Man, the CIA has had people on Proxima for about a decade now. I thought everyone knew that.
hassanisabbah
Mongoose
McDonalds opened its first store there during the 60s... man was that a blast... Besides the Proxima girls... whooo... man did you see the size of the 'conans' on them.... :wink: (to wise) :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted:
hassanisabbah
Mongoose
CARTMAG said:
ThatOneGuy
Mongoose
Neo, I can not idly stand by and allow the proud culture heritage of the Proximan people to be denied. Are you truly so ignorant that you have lost sight of the pain we, the people of Earth have put them through? God, when will we learn…
psyclonejack
Mongoose
Speaking of Proxima,
Did anyone see the political cartoon Yesterday in the Universe Today.
Two Earther kids standing at a shuttle stop, one had a shirt that read:
"FREE PROXIMA"
The other had a shirt that read:
"Sorry Proxima, your on your own."
Psyjack
Did anyone see the political cartoon Yesterday in the Universe Today.
Two Earther kids standing at a shuttle stop, one had a shirt that read:
"FREE PROXIMA"
The other had a shirt that read:
"Sorry Proxima, your on your own."
Psyjack
Dag'Nabbit
Mongoose
ThatOneGuy said:
Proud cultural heritage....hmmm.....let's see they are people from Earth who took Earth culture with them...wouldn't that mean their culture is protected by protecting Earth?
[Sorry, just saw the season 4 episode where the reporter twists everybody's words around for President Clark's propaganda machine and just had to throw that in there.] :wink:
Dr Goth
Mongoose
Proximans aside the book's not very good.
I'm sorry to drag this up again but as I recently discovered this forum (about 10 minutes ago) I missed the whole discussion.
I don't feel that the book is rasist. Prejudiced yes, but I wouldn't say rasist. What disappoints me is that I find it badly researched. That has nothing to do with future plausability. The stuff written on more timeless or present topics is not very correct either.
This doesn't make me give up on the whole series which I find very good (and I'm eagerly anticipating my copy of the Minbari Federation Fact Book right now). It makes me a bit more cautious regarding Mr Graws books. That may not be fair but I haven't read anything else by him. If I would go looking for a solely crunchy book I wouldn't hesitate a moment. That part he masters. It's the fluffy stuff that's a bit disappointing.
So, sorry again for saying that after the discussion has been officially terminated but I'm just glad that I'm not alone. For the record, though, I'm even gladder that Babylon 5 exists as a RPG and that it's supported.
Thank you, Mongoose!
/Dr (not so) Goth (anymore)
P.S. The Computer is your friend. There is no fifth edition of Paranoia. Happiness is mandatory.
I'm sorry to drag this up again but as I recently discovered this forum (about 10 minutes ago) I missed the whole discussion.
I don't feel that the book is rasist. Prejudiced yes, but I wouldn't say rasist. What disappoints me is that I find it badly researched. That has nothing to do with future plausability. The stuff written on more timeless or present topics is not very correct either.
This doesn't make me give up on the whole series which I find very good (and I'm eagerly anticipating my copy of the Minbari Federation Fact Book right now). It makes me a bit more cautious regarding Mr Graws books. That may not be fair but I haven't read anything else by him. If I would go looking for a solely crunchy book I wouldn't hesitate a moment. That part he masters. It's the fluffy stuff that's a bit disappointing.
So, sorry again for saying that after the discussion has been officially terminated but I'm just glad that I'm not alone. For the record, though, I'm even gladder that Babylon 5 exists as a RPG and that it's supported.
Thank you, Mongoose!
/Dr (not so) Goth (anymore)
P.S. The Computer is your friend. There is no fifth edition of Paranoia. Happiness is mandatory.
Neo
Mongoose
Dr Goth said:
It isn't based on plausibility because it isn't based on a plausible universe... it is science fiction !!! Whether or not the cultures turned out as you imagine the actual ones might in say a 100 years is totally moot... as the ones portrayed in the Bab 5 universe were not based that way either. What they were based on was existing canon and fictional material provided and then expanded upon to fill it out.. and with Warner Brothers approval I might add! Hence how can it be badly researched...
Judge Walker
Mongoose
Two things;
1) Even if the EA info was based in fact, it is hard to simulate "real" peoples in the D20 universe. The feats, skills, etc are already established. Sure to say the Isrealis are Militant might not cover the whole spectrum of that culture, but it is the best feat given the current list.
2) Fiction is great isn't it? Out of all the races in the B5 universe the Centauri are the most racist, xenophobic, self-centered bunch of egotists (not to mention genocidal) I have seen in sci-fi, but no one is howling about any connection to "reality" with them. Do the words "Nazis" and "Holocaust" ring any bells? Just one example.
This is a game here people. So, my advice is sit back, breath (maybe take a valium for the more rabid memebers) and enjoy the game for what it is...Entertainment.
1) Even if the EA info was based in fact, it is hard to simulate "real" peoples in the D20 universe. The feats, skills, etc are already established. Sure to say the Isrealis are Militant might not cover the whole spectrum of that culture, but it is the best feat given the current list.
2) Fiction is great isn't it? Out of all the races in the B5 universe the Centauri are the most racist, xenophobic, self-centered bunch of egotists (not to mention genocidal) I have seen in sci-fi, but no one is howling about any connection to "reality" with them. Do the words "Nazis" and "Holocaust" ring any bells? Just one example.
This is a game here people. So, my advice is sit back, breath (maybe take a valium for the more rabid memebers) and enjoy the game for what it is...Entertainment.
Dr Goth
Mongoose
What I meant was that the bad research cannot be explained away with the fact that it is science fiction (plausible or not) or just a vision of the future. I don't need plausibility but I do want descriptions of contemporary Earth to be correct. Sorry for that. As English isn't my first language I sometimes do not express myself correctly.Neo said:
By bad research I can offhandly mention Spain as an original member of the European Union or Great Britain as independent from it. Both these statements are incorrect. You can always argue that it is in fact fiction but it is supposed to have some connection with the real world, otherwise one can just make up a whole new world. But then, of course, it wouldn't be as exciting. And you can also argue that these are not very important faults, which they aren't, but they add to the general impression of the book. I find a lot of descriptions prejudiced but then I realise that so am I so I won't say anything more about them. I do know for a fact, though, that any of the peoples living around the Mediteranean basin are lousy drivers... :mrgreen:
The fact that WB has approved doesn't really change the book in itself now, does it? My guess is that some person or other has looked at it, said "it's ok" and cleared it. I seriously doubt that JMS himself has read it. But even if he had it wouldn't change the fact that I'm disappointed. But still... I don't think he himself did it.
Now, the book isn't all bad. Not at all. I thought so first when I read it a month ago, but not anymore. I do think that he didn't succeed in writing the fluffy parts but he excels at the crunchy ones. I have found that if I rewrite the descriptions of Earth proper I can use the rest. The story of RPG:ing I suppose.
For the record I want to say that I don't see Bruce Graw as a bad writer/game designer. He wouldn't write for Mongoose if he were. I see him as a person who made a mistake in designing one book. I'm not entirely willing to buy The Fiery Trial without looking at it first, though, as I've gotten the impression that he is quite military gaming oriented which I'm not.
/Dr Goth
P.S. 1.7 million people are living in the Greater Copenhagen area and there are about 280 000 inhabitants on the whole of Iceland (115 000 in Reykjavik). Reykjavik as the biggest city in Scandinavia isn't science fiction, it's hilarious.
Traveller-61
Mongoose
The EF book does not contain descriptions of contemporary Earth, the description is of a future Earth that might or might not exist. There is nothing to say that the B5 universe is exactly the same as ours in every way; and I accept that Bruce might have got some facts wrong compared to our Earth, but it begs the question how close or not is it to ours? I do not know and I am not sure that anyone other than JMS himself does.
The author did apolgise on these boards for any offence he might have unwittingly caused and after all: you are running your own version of the B5 universe so you can always alter whatever you want.
I would recommend the Fiery Trial - there is a some military type action but a lot more is good old fashioned role playing where starting a firefight will not only get characters hurt, it could just end the campaign there and then.
DW
A
Anonymous
Guest
Just for the record:
1) In Israel ALL men not posessing disabilities are required to join the military for 4 years.
2) The Germans have military traditions going back thousands of years (teutonic Knights, Celtic warriors, hessians, etc). This means than a millitant German is not automatically a Nazi (reference to previouse topic).
I call these millitant.
3) Great Britan is indipendant from the European Union. Although they are officialy part of it they flatly refused to join in the begining and still refuse to adopt the Euro as there currency.
4) It is true that Spain is not an original member of the European Union. It joined on January 1st, 1986. The EU was formed in 1950.
3 out of 4 isn't bad.
1) In Israel ALL men not posessing disabilities are required to join the military for 4 years.
2) The Germans have military traditions going back thousands of years (teutonic Knights, Celtic warriors, hessians, etc). This means than a millitant German is not automatically a Nazi (reference to previouse topic).
I call these millitant.
3) Great Britan is indipendant from the European Union. Although they are officialy part of it they flatly refused to join in the begining and still refuse to adopt the Euro as there currency.
4) It is true that Spain is not an original member of the European Union. It joined on January 1st, 1986. The EU was formed in 1950.
3 out of 4 isn't bad.
Dr Goth
Mongoose
I beg to differ but I should point out that with contemporary I really mean time less descriptions.Traveller-61 said:
He did? As I said I've missed these forums so far and therefore any discussions prior to this. If he did, kudos to him. I'll notch him up a bit again...Traveller-61 said:
Thank you, I'll have that in mind. It's not that expensive so it might just be worth buying after all (and I won't have to write a whole story arch myself 8)).Traveller-61 said:
I was ready to get flamed for bringing this up again but I have been proven wrong and I thank you all for that.
---
As for Great Britain being independent from the EU... Pro primo, GB did not refuse to join, they weren't invited. When they later tried to join for the first time it was France who refused (de Gaulle vetoed). Pro secundo, Sweden did not join until 1994 and has not joined the EMU (we even voted no in the referendum this autumn) but are still considered active members of the Union (as is Denmark). Being cranky and refusing to fulfill obligations does not make one independent. If that were so, France would be the most independent country in the world (and Sweden the least
).Cheers all!
/Dr G
Enlightened Bystander
Mongoose
I think that in the B5 timeline, we (the UK) are supposed to have left the Union when it started getting closer to a nation state.
Spain was an original member of the European Union. The EU only came into being after the Maastrichit (definately wrong sp) Treaty of 1992. Before that it was the Eurpoean Economic Community (EEC).
Spain was an original member of the European Union. The EU only came into being after the Maastrichit (definately wrong sp) Treaty of 1992. Before that it was the Eurpoean Economic Community (EEC).
Traveller-61
Mongoose
Apologies, I misinterpreted your statement.
The Fiery Trial is not 100% perfect but has a very good story arc that lets you characters be part of some of the major events on B5 in 2258 and gives plenty of hooks on which to base scenarios of your own. I also believe that Bruce has been commissioned to do a sequel set in 2259 (which I am really looking forward to!
)As for the EF Factbook – I found it very useful for filling in background in my game (which is set in a B5-ish universe) and I just ignored the parts that did not apply (like all the new classes, feats and d20 stuff). And even chopping all those bits out I still thought it was worth it! :lol:
DW
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