The claw of the Aslan

[PeterDebney]

One aspect of the Aslan that has long bothered me is the illustrations of their dew claw. I have not yet seen one that makes anatomical sense: none of them allow for the claw to be inside the “hand” or limb and leave the whole still functional.

As far as I know there are 4 possible solutions for a dewclaw:
1. Claw rotates out against the direction of the point. I don’t know of any examples in nature, possibly because it would be quite weak in use: the muscles and impact work in the same direction.
2. Claw rotates out with the direction of the point. This is how cats’ claws work (see https://www.britannica.com/science/claw), though cats cannot retract their dewclaws. This seems to be the assumption shown in Aliens of Chartered Space 1.
In both cases, rotating claws need to be either compact or have a large slot to fit in.
3. Claw telescopes out (like a wasp sting). This is the assumption shown in the core rule books. This is unsatisfactory for a number of reasons. Firstly, there is no room in the hand as drawn to fit the claw inside. Secondly, because to have room the claw would have to extend through the wrist, meaning that the claw can only be extended or retracted if the hand is angled right back. Thirdly because either the muscles need to be in the hand (muscles work by pulling not pushing) or, if the muscles are in the wrist, there needs to be a long bone or length of claw that remains in the forearm, leaving the wrist inflexible when the claw is extended. Alternatively, Aslan are like spiders, which don’t have muscles and use hydraulics instead (the approach used by most mechanical telescoping devices).
Also, having such a structure passing through the wrist will significantly weaken the wrist, leaving it all very vulnerable to damage.
4. The dewclaw is fixed (like for cats and dogs) but that removes the extension option.

Also, in most of these cases, the claw cannot align with other claws without seriously increasing the thickness of the hand due to the internal bone structure.

So, how can we have extendable Aslan dewclaws without them being an example of hand-waving (or should that be paw waving)?

I may have been thinking about this too much…

 

[Garnfellow]

I also have thought too much about this and I agree nothing seems to really fit the description. The one illustration that comes closest (from Travellers' Digest 17) also seems the weirdest:



I don't know if it's the hand configuration itself or if the perspective of the arm is off, but it looks like the Aslan has baby hands.

 

[PeterDebney]

I also have thought too much about this and I agree nothing seems to really fit the description. The one illustration that comes closest (from Travellers' Digest 17) also seems the weirdest:

View attachment 6012

I don't know if it's the hand configuration itself or if the perspective of the arm is off, but it looks like the Aslan has baby hands.

That looks like Claw option #1, and the hands do look very strange.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Why do Mongoose not gift their artists with the CT illustrations?

The CT Alien Module shows how the dewcaw fits into their hand.

 

[PeterDebney]

Why do Mongoose not gift their artists with the CT illustrations?

The CT Alien Module shows how the dewcaw fits into their hand.

I don't have that one. Please can you share the image?

 

[Grognardia]

This one?

 

[PeterDebney]

This one?

View attachment 6013

So, like a cat's claw attached to the base of the thumb. Like a cat's dewclaw it will help with holding on to prey and soft objects, but in combat I would think that their digit claws would be more dangerous.
I can also see why Aslan have lower dexterity, as manipulating objects will be harder for them than humans.

 

[Grognardia]

In my games, I'm just giving Aslan retractable claws. So much easier.

 

[MasterGwydion]

In my games, I'm just giving Aslan retractable claws. So much easier.

I do the same. I almost always ignore the art as it has no consistency.

 

[Sigtrygg]

It has no consistency because subsequent artists didn't look at the original - Mongoose Aslan are nothing like the Aslan of yore.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It has no consistency because subsequent artists didn't look at the original - Mongoose Aslan are nothing like the Aslan of yore.

Consistency in Art is difficult because it is Art, just as much emotional as physical. The best we can hope for are artists' renderings. For example, all artists' renderings of an F-14, should all show relatively the same F-14. Maybe it is slightly different, such as an F-14C, or have a different load out, or be painted differently, but they should all be roughly the same. Am I making an sense? The more I explain, the more jumbled it gets in my head.

I am having a horrible time explaining this, so that it is understandable. Maybe someone else will do a better job than I have.

 

[CordwainerFish]

I'm perfectly content for Aslan claws to just be claws. (Similar to the hani. In the books, a human who through odd circumstances became crew on a hani ship improvised fake claws to use hani 'keyboards'...)

 

[rinku]

Even within GDW there was a lot of variation. For me, unless Bill Keith drew it, it's suspect.

From a miniatures point of view, it's super convenient to ignore the four fingers and the dewclaw

 

[Grognardia]

This reminds me of another silly rule for the Aslan. The -2 DEX DM. I can kinda see where they're going with a penalty for having a dewclaw in the way (even though it's retractable, natch) for manipulating objects with their hands.

But they're supposed to be very agile pouncing predators. No way they should be clumsier and more awkward than a bog standard human. The rules even say Dexterity is 'Physical co-ordination and agility, reflexes.'

So that's another thing I changed for my Aslan

 

[MongooseMatt]

This reminds me of another silly rule for the Aslan. The -2 DEX DM.

This is indeed something we are looking at...

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

This reminds me of another silly rule for the Aslan. The -2 DEX DM. I can kinda see where they're going with a penalty for having a dewclaw in the way (even though it's retractable, natch) for manipulating objects with their hands.

But they're supposed to be very agile pouncing predators. No way they should be clumsier and more awkward than a bog standard human. The rules even say Dexterity is 'Physical co-ordination and agility, reflexes.'

So that's another thing I changed for my Aslan

Manual dexterity lowered by the dew claw. Overall dexterity not affected. They can still run and leap but typing is a challenge, maybe even aiming a pistol or holding a knife properly for fighting.

Chimp hands for example just can't make the moves for advanced stone tools. When trying to get a chimp to make tools one in frustration threw the rock and got it to flake off, it then by repeated throws made stone tools. These tools match tools made by primitive genus Homo who had more chimp like hands and whose construction had mystified researchers. But in spite of the limited (compared to humans) dexterity for these purposes no one would reasonably say they weren't agile or dexterous in other ways.

 

[Sigtrygg]

In CT the Dex characteristic is a measure of manual dexterity only:

"Dexterity measures physical coordination" not movement or general agility

and is applied to shooting and yet has no affect on movement rate.

Over time the meaning of the dexterity characteristic evolved.

Snapshot used Dex + End to determine action points, so dex is now more than just manual dexterity.

It definitely needs looking at.

 

[Vormaerin]

Yeah. Same situation as SOC, which used to just be status and could have various effects depending on the situation. Now it's also socialability and modifies a wide range of social situations in ways that are broader than mere social standing.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Ever seen a "maybe dexterity and agility should different stats" -> "there are aleph null stats" speedrun?

 

[Vormaerin]

No. But I am not suggesting that there be more stats (or less stats). I am suggesting that some things that were done the way they were because stats had a certain meaning should be updated because they are now defined differently.