Terraformation

[evo]

Hi,

In your opinion, on the TL scale, where would you place :
- approximate use of technology
- the beginnings of terraforming
- good understanding of the mechanisms
- full control of advanced terraforming

And what could be the implications on daily life ?

In the universe I intend to use, there's numerous terraformed worlds (and moons), and I need to know the TL's needed to do this, and if it does not fit, I would involve an ancient race (mysteriously disappeared without a trace), that would have paved the way (and maybe jumpgate, no jump drive onboard, like in Fading Suns - more control from Big Brother -).

I actually sketch a "10 point" terraforming process, that span several decades :

1- observation and analyse
The terraformation process is tailored for a world, drones and sensors are deployed around the surface and deep in the ground to recover data.

2- R&D (probably the longest phase)
Engineers, scientists and experts seek the best solution to make the planet habitable (no transhumanism).

3- to 10 - ? (blank page, that's only the start. Preparation, sending robots, etc.)


Thank you for your ideas. Have a nice day.

 

[rust]

The required technology level would depend on the specific planet and on
the terraforming method used.

For example, a primeval Earth, as it was before life developed, could be
terraformed with today's technology by introducing oxygen producing al-
gae into the oceans. A planet like Mars also could be terraformed with our
current technology, through the introduction of bacteria, with orbital mir-
rors and with automated facilities producing additional greenhouse gases.

The main problem would be the timeframe, as such a terraforming would
take a few centuries.

 

[phavoc]

If you wanted your civilization to expend the resources, we could do it today. You can drop rocks and ice onto a planet to stimulate the surface and add water/oxygen to the atmosphere. You can build sun shields to deflect sunlight and mirrors to re-direct it. You could then start seeding the planet with the appropriate lifeforms and plants that you wanted to grow.

Just don't expect anything to happen overnight. True terraforming using this type of tech takes decades, or more.

Now if you could get Khan to steal another Project Gensis terraformation device, you could do it in a day.

If you wanted to use currency to do so, it's probably prohibitively expensive using today's tech. But if the world decided it was necessary and banded together, then its more a matter of doing it. In this case currency distorts capability.

 

[zero]

Chthonian Stars has Aliens-style Atmosphere Processors being placed on Mar's surface (Cstars is set in a high-end TL 8 solar system).

The process is however, mid-way and said to take maybe decades to complete, small areas dont need a full Vacc Suit, but do need things such as filters and environment suits.

Pretty much I'd say the further TL you implement this tech (you can do it from todays tech too, remember) the shorter amount of time it will take, but generally its agreed the full time should take a few decades to achieve.

 

[DFW]

Chthonian Stars has Aliens-style Atmosphere Processors being placed on Mar's surface (Cstars is set in a high-end TL 8 solar system).

The process is however, mid-way and said to take maybe decades to complete, small areas dont need a full Vacc Suit, but do need things such as filters and environment suits.

That wouldn't be possible. Either you'd not need vacc suits on the whole planet or, you would if it were Mars.

 

[rust]

Chthonian Stars has Aliens-style Atmosphere Processors being placed on Mar's surface (Cstars is set in a high-end TL 8 solar system).

The problem is that for Mars one would need "atmosphere producers"
(there is not much to process there ...), because otherwise the atmo-
sphere would remain so thin that survival without a vac suit would be
impossible.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Hi,

In your opinion, on the TL scale, where would you place :
- approximate use of technology
- the beginnings of terraforming
- good understanding of the mechanisms
- full control of advanced terraforming

Mssr Evo,

The "book answer"--for technology level required to achieve results, according to the Technology Level Scale found in MgT's Library Data, pp63-66, the below answers maybe what you're asking for--if you're using a Traveller-mechanic ruleset setting.

Environment

:arrow: TL4--Crude Terraforming
:arrow: TL8--Early Weather Control
:arrow: TL12--Major terraforming/ Advanced Weather Control
:arrow: TL15--Complex Terraforming possible
:arrow: TL16--Global Terraforming, Hostile worlds
:arrow: TL17--Total Terraforming to 800km (diameter) worlds*
:arrow: TL18--Total Terraforming to 4000km (diameter) worlds**
:arrow: TL19--Total Terraforming
:arrow: TL20--Mobile Worlds (sublight speeds)
:arrow: TL21--Mobile Worlds (Jump Space), Rosettes

* Large asteroids, tiny moons
** Small moons, dwarf planets

In the Traveller setting, TL18 is the low end of the Ancients, Mssr Evo.

And what could be the implications on daily life ?

In the universe I intend to use, there's numerous terraformed worlds (and moons), and I need to know the TL's needed to do this, and if it does not fit, I would involve an ancient race (mysteriously disappeared without a trace), that would have paved the way (and maybe jumpgate, no jump drive onboard, like in Fading Suns - more control from Big Brother -).

Sounds great! Terraforming has been around before TL4 IMO, with mankind reshaping the landscape of his environment to suit his needs. Its a matter of scale, and how fast really. Terracing out mountainsides/ hillsides in Imperial China to grow rice for villages to cities that were placed deep with jungles across the world are some early examples of such works.

Altering an existing atmosphere is easier than say, creating an atmosphere where none existed before. But planets are large, and it takes time. In one of my writings for the game, there is a world within the piece that has been working since its founding on doing just such a thing. Marginally habitable at X722000-0 when the colony began, I have their population at 9 after 1800 years & various wars, and economic slowdowns to have brought changes to a modest X7339??-C at TL12. They project they are within 200 years of changing it to X7449??-C, or X7549??-C.

They have had a firm environmental grip on water reclamation/ recycling since their founding; their belting industry has brought over and dropped numerous ice laden asteroids to deposit onto the surface for atmosphere & Hydrosphere alteration. dirtside, many of their former pit-mines were linked as the water table was reached by canals to form lakes as mining at the sites ended, and they worked on reclaiming the surface area.

As I said, technology & technique increases, will improve time on the project. If you're 'Verse has been in space for a few centuries, and there were terraforming corporations formed from pre-space exploration Landscaping construction firms of old, then a lot of what you're asking for is quite plausible. Adding robots, and seeding worlds with plants & geneering animals to the specific various gravities there of course, speeds things along.

Terraforming 800km & 4000km moons, moonlets, asteroids that have scant amounts of gravity are of course higher tech solutions, because in order to keep an atmosphere on those worlds, one has to artificially create enough gravity to hold one to such a small planetary body, and might be the work of your Ancient/ Firstborn/ Elder race...

I actually sketch a "10 point" terraforming process, that span several decades :

1- observation and analyse
The terraformation process is tailored for a world, drones and sensors are deployed around the surface and deep in the ground to recover data.

2- R&D (probably the longest phase)
Engineers, scientists and experts seek the best solution to make the planet habitable (no transhumanism).

3- to 10 - ? (blank page, that's only the start. Preparation, sending robots, etc.)
Thank you for your ideas. Have a nice day.

In your 10 point plan, you of course must have what to do about
:?: existing atmosphere (if any);
:?: what to do about existing hydrosphere (if any),
:?: what to do about surface land (if any),
:?: and what to do about flora and fauna transplanting for human life to exist (if none, a complete ecosystem is needed), just for starters.

The rest of the plan is
:?: how to implement the changes,
:?: getting the manpower & machinery to make the changes in place,
:?: managing the changes (once the two steps above have been met),
:?: When the changes are complete, what is end result?
:?: Colonization can begin...

Just my thoughts on this, yours, and others MMV,

 

[rust]

:?: Colonization can begin...

This is the only point where I would see things differently, in my view a
"seed colony" should already be established at the beginning of most
terraforming projects, as a place where the scientists and engineers who
control the program can live with their families and from where also a
detailed exploration of the planet can be organized.

 

[Liam Devlin]

:?: Colonization can begin...

This is the only point where I would see things differently, in my view a
"seed colony" should already be established at the beginning of most
terraforming projects, as a place where the scientists and engineers who
control the program can live with their families and from where also a
detailed exploration of the planet can be organized.

We actually concur, Herr Rust (read my above example). IMTU this is usually included in the "package deal" for the terraformed planet--ala Aliens2--the colonists are there helping with the upkeep of the machinery, & robots. They are also there getting projects under way for follow-on phases for the planet's investors.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Herr Rust, & others,

The world in question in my example is set in Foreven, the Urnian subsector (2537) Quintus, as we set down in SP1001 Field Manual. IN a nutshell, it was surveyed and found to have rich lanthanum deposits by its motherworlds from the Main at TL11. The 100K initial wave Colonists sent in "a planned project" were to set up and get running an A-class Shipyard there. They however came from Garden worlds, and decided what they would do with their shares of the profits from the sales of these vessels built and sold here--and invest it in terraforming their new world. So, they started it slowly at TL11, and have been adding along once after achieving TL12 ever since.

Hope this explains the method to my madness for you!

 

[phavoc]

Depending on how close to the science you want to take it, some worlds aren't going to be good candidates for terraforming due to their size or location. Mars only masses 10% of earth and has a G rating of about .4g's. I'm not even sure it would be capable of holding an atmosphere long-term, at least not without constant replenishment (course, that could be part of the colonists new planet too, where atmo processors are placed around the globe and could be part of an adventure). Plus Mars has no solar radiation protection like Earth does.

Still, there are indeed a lot of things you could postulate the colonists doing as part of their terraforming project.

One thing though, if they are building a Class A shipyard, wouldn't they be building an orbital one instead of being on the surface? Orbital yards seem more effecient, and you can always build smaller craft in facilities that have large airlocks.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Depending on how close to the science you want to take it, some worlds aren't going to be good candidates for terraforming due to their size or location. Mars only masses 10% of earth and has a G rating of about .4g's. I'm not even sure it would be capable of holding an atmosphere long-term, at least not without constant replenishment (course, that could be part of the colonists new planet too, where atmo processors are placed around the globe and could be part of an adventure). Plus Mars has no solar radiation protection like Earth does.

True, Mars is smaller and farther away from the Sun (traveller UWP size 5)

Still, there are indeed a lot of things you could postulate the colonists doing as part of their terraforming project.

One thing though, if they are building a Class A shipyard, wouldn't they be building an orbital one instead of being on the surface? Orbital yards seem more effecient, and you can always build smaller craft in facilities that have large airlocks.

Without spoilers, the recent MgT publication Starports, was a big help in what I am writing now, Mssr Phavoc. So yes, that A-class Shipyard has both Highport & down port components.
Quintus is UWP Size 7 (just a bit smaller than Terran-size 8), and was in the habitable zone. I don't delve into why it only had Atm type 2 upon its survey, just that it was what they found and have built upon.[/i]

 

[rust]

The setting I am currently working on has as its focus the development
of a colony on a desert world with properties which are somewhere be-
teen primeval Earth (habitable zone, diameter, density of the exotic at-
mosphere) and Mars (hydrographics, terrain) and which is terraformed
with a long term bioterraforming (using genetically engineered life forms)
project.

After doing a little research on proposed terraforming methods, I think
this kind of planet would probably be the most difficult target for a terra-
forming program which Traveller technology could handle, and bioterra-
forming would probably be the most economical method to do it, although
it would be somewhat slow, it would take approximately 250 years to ma-
ke the atmosphere breathable and to create s stable biosphere.

The "seed colony" would begin with 250 persons, mostly scientists and
engineers. Their habitat would consist of about half of the colony ship
which transported them to the planet, the other half of the ship would be-
come the colony's orbital "spaceport" for the supply ships bringing both
supplies and occasionally also new colonists to the planet.

The main activities of the colonists would be "terrafarming" (yep, with an
"a"), introducing terraforming life forms into the planet's environment to
produce oxygen, create fertile soil and all that, and the exploration of the
planet with the aim to discover as many as possible of its natural resour-
ces (metals, subterranean water, etc.) and to prepare for their exploita-
tion, with the exports of raw materials as the financial base of the colony.

The technology required for the terraforming is only slightly more advan-
ced than our current technology, and only where genetics are concerned.
The real high tech is needed to get the terraformers to the planet and to
establish the colony there, compared to this the actual terraforming is a
rather primitive affair.

 

[evo]

Thank you all, especially Liam, for your help.

Here are several ideas to mature. I thought about using humans adapted to their new environment, but transhumanism involves many ethical and philosophical questions, away from the Traveller guideline. Thus, the use of automated stations, and a large number of drones and robots, with the assistance of a terraformation crew, would be the best solution to do the job.

The medium TL will be close to that of movies like Alien, Chronicles of Riddick, Pandorum, Serenity, Event horizon, Avatar, etc.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Mssr Evo,

You're quite welcome!

 

[rust]

I thought about using humans adapted to their new environment, but transhumanism involves many ethical and philosophical questions, away from the Traveller guideline.

Besides, a transhumanist approach would make terraforming of the planet
impossible. If the humans are adapted to the planet's environment, any
change of that environment by a terraforming project would reduce the
quality of the adapted colonists' life and could even drive them into ex-
tinction in the long run.

 

[BP]

Hmmm... read a book this year with that exact theme - a sect of the adapted humans were sabotaging the terraforming project to maintain the environment they were genetically engineered for (aquatic actually).

So, socially evolving into unadapted humans who expected the adapted to become extinct, adapted and non who were willing to co-exist by modifying the terraforming plans, and adapted who wanted humans to become extinct.