Technology Marches On: Traveller Munitions

[SSWarlock]

One thing I've always enjoyed about Traveller over the decades was watching real world technology develop to match or even exceed the capabilities of "advanced" Traveller tech. However, some techie things in sci-fi always seemed a bit silly to me and one of them was "homing" bullets. I mean, come on. There's no way such a thing can be made that small with that kind of capability.

Well..never say "never."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810107

:shock:

 

[barnest2]

I sometimes forget the BBC is so behind the times on tech...

But yeah, this is pretty damn cool. Lawgiver anyone?

 

[locarno24]

More like andromeda smart bullets. I didn't think any of the lawgiver's many ammo types were guided?

Specifically, the weapon is a home-on-laser; essentially a mini version of a laser-guided bomb. So you'd need a laser sight to pair it with. At that point, you can target-designate and it's essentially impossible to miss the designated target.

Of course, you can still miss with the laser spot, so it's not the be-all and end-all, but the laser spot doesn't have to cope with the wind and allows you to correct your aim during the second or so of flight of a long-range sniper shot.

If you want to be very unpleasant, you could laser-designate for a second firer and allow them to lob fire indirectly from a conventional (ish) gun. Being able to steer suppressing fire from a .50 cal onto a target would be interesting, for example.

It's been floating around for a few years, actually. It started with a DARPA proposal called EXACTO:
http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/TTO/Programs/Extreme_Accuracy_Tasked_Ordnance_(EXACTO).aspx

 

[Captain Jonah]

Two man sniper team, spotter/designator and firer.

With a good heavy round like a 50 cal the range is going to be vast since you can angle your shots upwards allowing the round fly non ballistic paths to more distant targets than is possible with any accuracy today.

Also going to make finding snipers harder since they can be behind cover with no direct line of sight and can then arc shots over the cover to the designated laser dot.

If the designator can be made small enough to be easily hidden even when in use and able to get past weapon scanners you can literally have someone standing in a crowd spotting for a sniper a mile away who is firing over a building half a mile away.

Not much good at turning corners due to the velocity but it’s the sort of thing that will be giving security types cold sweats in a few years.

 

[Rick]

Now I'm wondering if there is any counter technology useable? If the laser needs a good solid target to scatter a beam back to the pickup on the round - some kind of reflective chaff (mylar fragment aerosol?) fired into the path of the laser might make the round hit that instead of the target. It would still need some good timing to ensure success though, lol!

 

[rust]

Now I'm wondering if there is any counter technology useable?

It depends on the quality of the projectile's sensor system.
If the quality is low, one only has to "laser paint" a couple
of objects in the area to confuse the projectile, if the quali-
ty is high one would need a way to measure the laser's wa-
velength to do this.

 

[Rick]

Now I'm wondering if there is any counter technology useable?

It depends on the quality of the projectile's sensor system.
If the quality is low, one only has to "laser paint" a couple
of objects in the area to confuse the projectile, if the quali-
ty is high one would need a way to measure the laser's wa-
velength to do this.

Interesting - I was already thinking that whatever target was being painted would need a laser detection/warning setup - now I think it would need a way to analyse that wavelength (wonder if that analysis would give you direction and distance to painting laser as well?). Well, if the tech for the projectile is coming in around TL8 - I think you'd need TL 9 for a fairly basic detector/warning package, probably TL10 for the more sophisticated analysis module (I'm assuming a hand-held/worn item here, btw). laser painting/micro-chaff countermeasures would probably be available at the same TL as the detector.

 

[locarno24]

Sounds about right. I'd put the detector at the same level, though (TL8).

A Laser warning receiver is an easy enough concept for vehicles. Also, I guess, for people, once the tech gets a level or so higher. It is, after all, possible today, but I'm guessing yon important political figure would prefer not to walk around in a MILES rig (think military-grade laser-quest).

Since it's a miniature detector linked to an alarm buzzer, if you can build one compact enough to go on a bullet you can build one compact enough to pin to a lapel. I'd say current TL for a detector which triggers an alarm "I'm being lased", TL+1 for one that can give an accurate back-track of the bearing to you or your bodyguards "I'm being lased from the eighth floor of the Postal Service Tower."

WRT aerosol grenades, I'm trying to remember if they're anywhere in mercenary or CSC. With laser rifles being a pretty standard weapon in the 3I it's the sort of thing that might well have been put in before now.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Well in terms of detecting you are being lazed, flight time of the round over a mile is a few seconds, a comm link to the firer and start the targeting laser as he fires. Your detector may go ping but unless you have a very well trained security team you will have enough time to glance at the detector, start to worry and the bullet hits you.

Inside you can polarise the windows, it is outside that this is dangerous. It improves accuracy significantly and also range but the projectile remains the same so its not suddenly going to smash through armour.

For the military the increase in range and accuracy will make forward deployed sniper teams more feared than they are now. Knowing a sniper could be more than a mile away and still put a round above your body armour and below your helmet rim is going to do bad things to moral and mobility.

Imagine troops being set to dig in like the first world war with not fox holes but trenches. They need protection from Arty but they also need to be able to move and function.

At higher tech levels you switch up to x-ray designators and as your ability to produce high density control circuits improves then you can start to add self seeking.

Add this to the X-tech rifles that are being tested and developed now with laser ranging and grenades that can be set to distance detonate etc etc. The ability of a single sniper team to drop Ram grenades into groups and large targets or bullets into single targets at a mile is going to allow significant control of large areas. A few teams can block an area miles wide if the terrain is open enough.

Not so usefull at close ranges though as the bullet will hit whatever the laser is pointing at and it probably cannot turn fast enough to make any changes over a few hundred feet.

We seem to be in a stage of the armour/firepower stage where once again firepower both in terms of its effectiveness and its deployment is growing and armour is falling behind. Full body armour suits using a significantly improved armour material is becoming a requirement.

 

[Rick]

I was assuming that we can build a vehicle mounted detection system at around TL 7-8, so a portable hand-held would be about +1 TL. I also assumed it would be a computer-controlled countermeasures package as Captain Locarno points out; you won't have much time to react. As to being behind a window - that is one of the flaws of the device - enough of the laser is going to be bouncing off the window for the round to see that as the target and not penetrate much beyond - you would then need to reacquire the target through the hole for a second shot.

I'm also thinking that as far as countermeasures go - a sonic 'pulse' could disrupt the air enough in front of a round to send it off course - although I'm a bit more hazy on that one!

 

[locarno24]

Well, the best countermeasure is to sweep an area and 'clean' it of enemy snipers.

Possibly using something like this:
Swarming micro-drones

 

[Rick]

Well, the best countermeasure is to sweep an area and 'clean' it of enemy snipers.

Possibly using something like this:
Swarming micro-drones

Oh, very nice - but considering the range of snipers you'd either have to 'sanitise' a whopping great area (1-2 km radius) centred on the target or have teams of 'em standing by all over the place. Not very good as a sniper countermeasure unless you were very cold-blooded about it and didn't mind the target being killed to get the sniper teams. The other way of using them might be to fly them in random patterns around the target to act as decoys so that the target couldn't be painted.

 

[Captain Jonah]

One of the points here is that they actual firer can be a looooong way off and not in direct line of sight since he can arc shots over hills and buildings. The laser could be something as small as a laser pen, it could be remote controlled. Do your security checks find laser pen pointers on anyone in the crowd.

The drones will be needed in large numbers to cover every possilbe sniper spot within 3 million square metres when the firer is hiding in just one square meter and probably under thermal and Emcon camo.

If you want to kill the sniper you can echo locate and drop a mortar round on him about 3 seconds after he fires. Bit hard on the target though :twisted:

For counter insurgency though this is going to be highly effective if your rules of engagement allow it. With sensors to detect movement in the target area and alert the sniper its going to be very hard to move in interdicted areas, day or night.