Surprise on the battlefield ?

[soulman]

Just laying in the bath, doing was wargame thinking, and turned my thoughts to surprise....

I know when you kill a leader, the unit lose 2 actions, but this is more panic etc, but what about surprise..?


1. I guess flash bangs remove a figures reactions when used, allowing you to attack and he cannot react..?

2. I guess if you entered a room, any enemy lose reactions as well..?


"Surprise " not about losing actions, but losing reactions "

Your thoughts on this, if a ww2 commando run into a pillbox sten gun blazing, any enemy would lose reactions..?

Your thoughts..?

Alan-Uk

 

[Paladin]

House rules of old, flashbangs denied reactions.

 

[tiepilot1138]

I would agree. The defending unit should lose the ability to react. In real life, when flashbangs are deployed the attacking unit goes in shooting (usually). Close combat isn't usually a result of a bang deployment. I might even go as far as to say that due to the confusion and general lack of defense due to surprise a -1 to the unit's hit and kill might be appropriate. (Being on the deploying end of a bang, I can say it's quite like shooting fish in a barrel).

 

[Shadow4ce]

I would agree. The defending unit should lose the ability to react. In real life, when flashbangs are deployed the attacking unit goes in shooting (usually). Close combat isn't usually a result of a bang deployment. I might even go as far as to say that due to the confusion and general lack of defense due to surprise a -1 to the unit's hit and kill might be appropriate. (Being on the deploying end of a bang, I can say it's quite like shooting fish in a barrel).

Seconded, and as far as "Flash-Bangs" go, I would be tempted to allow the assault team to double the dice rolled as well. In my experience with "diversionary devices" the targets of the assault are all holding their ears and stumbling like drunkards.

For regular surprise I would probably just use -1 hit/kill as you suggest and negate any cover modifier as you are undoubtedly flanking them if you are surprising them, and the cover is on the wrong side. :wink:

I need to playtest these. Great IP Soul, and feedback guys. 8)

 

[soulman]

Thanks to you as well all, its always nice to start a thread, and have good feedback in return.

I`m not sure that the flashbang rules are at the moment, and of course waiting for the ww2 and modern rules as they are update versions etc...

Once i have the ww2 rules, i can work on my Ghostrecon rules i started with more detail in combat options, and with the rules i have for a to hit and a second to wound/kill roll

 

[Shadow4ce]

Another possibility for regular surprise is to make the 50-50 roll for each surviving model in the surprised unit: 1-3 the model runs away from the attacking unit, 4-6 the model fires back. After their Reaction, any "Out of Command" effects take place.

Thoughts?

 

[Paladin]

Depends on who is on the receiving end Shadow. If a hardened force knows you're getting ready to bust in they will be expecting the flashbangs, if you are fighting a guerilla milita... well.

But if you go that route it's more complicated than it's worth.

 

[Shadow4ce]

I mean for regular "surprise" not using flash devices. Say, when an SAS ambush is sprung, or the start of a scenario as part of special scenario rules, like a US Delta Team just HALO'd into your rear area e.g.

Basically for the rare event, but add flavor with the random individual model's "Fight or Flight" response to the "surprise" situation.